Mclaren MP4-30 Honda

[AlainProst]

SilentStorm

I say the car is aerodynamically impressive by looking the car. I try to guess what will be its aerodynamic performance when Hondu PU problems will be resolved. If you say "Wait before say that you think about the car", this blog is a little useless. It's a bit predictions. Also, you can't deny that aerodynamically, McLaren made great progress compared to last year

[markp]

SilentStorm

I say the car is aerodynamically impressive by looking the car. I try to guess what will be its aerodynamic performance when Hondu PU problems will be resolved. If you say "Wait before say that you think about the car", this blog is a little useless. It's a bit predictions. Also, you can't deny that aerodynamically, McLaren made great progress compared to last year

I think you mean visually impressive to you. You or anyone in the world without access to cars aero data cannot say aerodynamically impressive unless you mean the aero concepts the design appears to be using. Either way no way to tell if it handles well until it moves from gp2 to f1 pace.

[AlainProst]

SilentStorm

I say the car is aerodynamically impressive by looking the car. I try to guess what will be its aerodynamic performance when Hondu PU problems will be resolved. If you say "Wait before say that you think about the car", this blog is a little useless. It's a bit predictions. Also, you can't deny that aerodynamically, McLaren made great progress compared to last year

I think you mean visually impressive to you. You or anyone in the world without access to cars aero data cannot say aerodynamically impressive unless you mean the aero concepts the design appears to be using. Either way no way to tell if it handles well until it moves from gp2 to f1 pace.

Yes, you are right, I can't say "This car is aerodynamically good" before the first race but I hink the change is going in the right direction. Before this year, McLaren has the same aerodynamic philosophy than Ferrari and this philosophy never showed it was good. Before 2015, Peter Prodromou was the aerodynamic RedBull director, so I think we can trust him

[Silent Storm]

SilentStorm

I say the car is aerodynamically impressive by looking the car. I try to guess what will be its aerodynamic performance when Hondu PU problems will be resolved. If you say "Wait before say that you think about the car", this blog is a little useless. It's a bit predictions. Also, you can't deny that aerodynamically, McLaren made great progress compared to last year

I think you mean visually impressive to you. You or anyone in the world without access to cars aero data cannot say aerodynamically impressive unless you mean the aero concepts the design appears to be using. Either way no way to tell if it handles well until it moves from gp2 to f1 pace.

Yes, you are right, I can't say "This car is aerodynamically good" before the first race but I hink the change is going in the right direction. Before this year, McLaren has the same aerodynamic philosophy than Ferrari and this philosophy never showed it was good. Before 2015, Peter Prodromou was the aerodynamic RedBull director, so I think we can trust him

If a aerodynamic philosophy worked on one car it doesn't mean it will work on other too. Aerodynamics is not that easy that you can simply copy something and it will work!! There's lot of stuff! Redbull's success is not down to just Peter Prodromou or Adrian Newey, it's the whole team. So Prodromou might have a positive effect on the teams performance but it doesn't mean it will be as good as Redbull.

[Jordan44]

Yes it is true that you can't just copy an aerodynamic philosophy but that's only true if you're changing an already developed car. This McLaren seems a total revolution in all areas so they've completely changed the origins of the chassis and the direction it is going. So I think it's safe to assume they've taken some of Red Bulls philosophies from Peter.

[JDC123]

Why do teams still insist on using carbon fibre engine covers and sidepods when it has terrible heat conduction properties and retains the heat produced from the radiators? Aluminium although heavy is much better at conducting heat and would therefore be much better in areas of high heat concentration under the engine cover as it transfers heat much quicker from inside the engine cover to the atmosphere.

[GoranF1]

Arai post-FPs interview for Japanese press
http://www.f1-stinge...3/13/055357.php
Actually quite long, so just rough translation

---
Our usage of MGU-K and H isnt suited to this circuit at all, time is very poor, so right now doing strategy meeting reviewing data and working on various things
FP1
had problem in control data for air intake, same issue for both cars
not hardware problem
control data error that would lead to hardware problem, so decided to stop early to examine data thoroughly
FP2
(on Kevin's crash) what he told. he was running quite fast at S1, just about to up the pace but the rear broke and lost control
(on Jenson's "loss of power") it went into "power save mode". There was error in data, so no point to continue so stopped a bit early.
(on power save mode) it was not trouble. Data setting was a bit loose, or threshold setting was a bit wrong. There’s certain threshold for safety, and data wasnt optimized for this circuit, and some figures exceeded the threshold during long run, so it went into safety mode, as it should.
(PU itself not full power yet?) Not at all. Not able to use power effectively. Power allocation isnt done properly at all, so resulting in power loss somewhere in the middle.
(not being able to use ERS well?) that's right. Circuit has many corners, so we're not able to use power properly at all yet.
---
(what do you think of Merc?) Amazing. I knew they were fast in Barcelona already. For us, it's about how much closer we can get to them. Lack of preparation during testing affected us badly, so tomorrow we'll try to make proper running.

(what u regarded as most important?) Allocation of MGU-K power. How to recover and how to use it. It's like, "it's no good to spend this much with my salary of this little, isnt it?" or sth like that. We have to be able to manage the account well, otherwise cannot win the race.
(allocation of energy?) Right. After in and out, we're in red, sth like that. We're trying to find the way to better manage it by analyzing data. We're aware we have to do a lot better about it.
(lack of running during winter testing is the cause?) Yes. Also difference of characteristic b/w here and Barcelona. Drivers are figuring out how much you can late brake and still adjusting things while running. Matching bw drivers and hardware/software hasnt been done yet at all.

(any hardware trouble?) None in particular.
(so it's about polishing software side?) There's no issue in software itself, but nature of data optimization is "the more you do the better it gets" surely, so, feeling shame about the lack of running in pre-season test.
(think can finish the race) Car itself has no issue, but to make the car competitive is another and that's what needs to be done tonight and tomorrow.
(suppose u can finish the race, how many % you'll be able to complete jigsaw?) we see the whole picture in mind, but starting from 50% is team's view, we know the final picture and what to do to make it better, but for some things we need more time.
(can see car's true competitiveness in Q tomorrow?) Dont think so, we are far from 100% of performance we expect yet.
(control data can be improved with no end actually, but time is limited) Not sure how long it takes to review the whole data, but analysis is being done real time in Sakura, which is incredible. Dont feel the distance, this is so intriguing and exciting.
(on time difference) we have to work regardless of time zone. Was tough at Sakura for Barcelona, but here in Melbourne it's only 2 hours, so it's a lot easier.
Not thinking too much about lap count.
(could gather data you wanted?) Yes, enough data.
realize the importance of time and timing. You have make quick judgement on whether it's time to run now or not, the importance of the dicision making is very different between testing and GP. We lost our touch in that since 2008. Communication bw Mclaren is very good, so we're working together to advance things while chatting, so we're not so worried about that. But we realize we need more speed. If we can do that, machine should get faster too.

[CjC]

Because the overall gain from using carbon fibre is higher than aluminium?

Ok so the honda ICE isn't running at full stick AND ERS isn't running at full stick either?

[wesley123]

Why do teams still insist on using carbon fibre engine covers and sidepods when it has terrible heat conduction properties and retains the heat produced from the radiators? Aluminium although heavy is much better at conducting heat and would therefore be much better in areas of high heat concentration under the engine cover as it transfers heat much quicker from inside the engine cover to the atmosphere.

Carbon retains the heat produced? Sounds like a pretty good idea to use carbon then. Teams duct and channel the cooling airflow as optimally as possible through the heat exchangers out of the car. Adding heat conducting bodywork(like aluminium) to the car simply means you're adding another heat exchanger to the car for no good reason. Plus, the added weight is an immense downside as well.

[Thefuelman]

SilentStorm

I say the car is aerodynamically impressive by looking the car. I try to guess what will be its aerodynamic performance when Hondu PU problems will be resolved. If you say "Wait before say that you think about the car", this blog is a little useless. It's a bit predictions. Also, you can't deny that aerodynamically, McLaren made great progress compared to last year

Its hard to look a a car and say that. The FW26 williams looked impressive, so did the RB3 and RB4 red bulls but to no avail. I remember eveyone saying how the mclaren MP4/10 looks aerodynamically amazing aswell The MP4/18 aswell remember that triumph of aero?. I dont think they will know until they get this PU sorted. Its the the achillies heel. i guess its not just a case of missing power but drivability and development aswell. What im saying is we havnt seen the limits of the cars aerodynamics as they are 4 seconds off the pace in melbourne currently so i doubt the car is being used to its limits due to drivtrain problems.

[BlackSwan]

More images of the Mag's crash, plus various FP2 shots

[AlainProst]

SilentStorm

I say the car is aerodynamically impressive by looking the car. I try to guess what will be its aerodynamic performance when Hondu PU problems will be resolved. If you say "Wait before say that you think about the car", this blog is a little useless. It's a bit predictions. Also, you can't deny that aerodynamically, McLaren made great progress compared to last year

Its hard to look a a car and say that. The FW26 williams looked impressive, so did the RB3 and RB4 red bulls but to no avail. I remember eveyone saying how the mclaren MP4/10 looks aerodynamically amazing aswell The MP4/18 aswell remember that triumph of aero?. I dont think they will know until they get this PU sorted. Its the the achillies heel. i guess its not just a case of missing power but drivability and development aswell. What im saying is we havnt seen the limits of the cars aerodynamics as they are 4 seconds off the pace in melbourne currently so i doubt the car is being used to its limits due to drivtrain problems.

I never said that McLaren uses innovations in aerodynamics (as mp4 10 and others cars you said) but they use proven solution from Red Bull philosophy (and Mercedes has the same philosophy). They use solutions of winnings cars since 2010, but it's not just a copy (as wanted to tell J0rd4n) but an agressive adaptation by one of the best aerodynamicist of Formula 1, Peter Prodromou who participated for a big part on RedBull success

The current problems of McLaren come from Honda engine and I said it just now, if the engine isn't at the top, the aerodynamic is useless...

[JDC123]

Why do teams still insist on using carbon fibre engine covers and sidepods when it has terrible heat conduction properties and retains the heat produced from the radiators? Aluminium although heavy is much better at conducting heat and would therefore be much better in areas of high heat concentration under the engine cover as it transfers heat much quicker from inside the engine cover to the atmosphere.

Carbon retains the heat produced? Sounds like a pretty good idea to use carbon then. Teams duct and channel the cooling airflow as optimally as possible through the heat exchangers out of the car. Adding heat conducting bodywork(like aluminium) to the car simply means you're adding another heat exchanger to the car for no good reason. Plus, the added weight is an immense downside as well.

Do you even understand what you have put? Why are you talking about heat exchangers? Carbon fibre in the use of an engine cover is quite bad because it retains heat around the engine rather than transfer it into the atmosphere. Teams use gold foil in certain areas because it has a high heat conductivity so transfers heat from very hot areas quickly. If you were to use aluminium heat would escape much quicker meaning you could have much smaller hot air outlets at the back of the car. What I am saying is I am surprised the engineers haven't considered using different materials. Carbon fibre seems to be used in F1 for the sake of using it.

[ojlopez]

Why do teams still insist on using carbon fibre engine covers and sidepods when it has terrible heat conduction properties and retains the heat produced from the radiators? Aluminium although heavy is much better at conducting heat and would therefore be much better in areas of high heat concentration under the engine cover as it transfers heat much quicker from inside the engine cover to the atmosphere.

Carbon retains the heat produced? Sounds like a pretty good idea to use carbon then. Teams duct and channel the cooling airflow as optimally as possible through the heat exchangers out of the car. Adding heat conducting bodywork(like aluminium) to the car simply means you're adding another heat exchanger to the car for no good reason. Plus, the added weight is an immense downside as well.

Do you even understand what you have put? Why are you talking about heat exchangers? Carbon fibre in the use of an engine cover is quite bad because it retains heat around the engine rather than transfer it into the atmosphere. Teams use gold foil in certain areas because it has a high heat conductivity so transfers heat from very hot areas quickly. If you were to use aluminium heat would escape much quicker meaning you could have much smaller hot air outlets at the back of the car. What I am saying is I am surprised the engineers haven't considered using different materials. Carbon fibre seems to be used in F1 for the sake of using it.

I don't think the gold foil is meant to be used a heat conductor. It is normally used as a heat shield.

[PhillipM]

Yes, the gold foil is there to reflect radiation, which is considerable around the manifolds.