Mclaren MP4-30 Honda

[George-Jung]

Why do teams still insist on using carbon fibre engine covers and sidepods when it has terrible heat conduction properties and retains the heat produced from the radiators? Aluminium although heavy is much better at conducting heat and would therefore be much better in areas of high heat concentration under the engine cover as it transfers heat much quicker from inside the engine cover to the atmosphere.

Carbon retains the heat produced? Sounds like a pretty good idea to use carbon then. Teams duct and channel the cooling airflow as optimally as possible through the heat exchangers out of the car. Adding heat conducting bodywork(like aluminium) to the car simply means you're adding another heat exchanger to the car for no good reason. Plus, the added weight is an immense downside as well.

Do you even understand what you have put? Why are you talking about heat exchangers? Carbon fibre in the use of an engine cover is quite bad because it retains heat around the engine rather than transfer it into the atmosphere. Teams use gold foil in certain areas because it has a high heat conductivity so transfers heat from very hot areas quickly. If you were to use aluminium heat would escape much quicker meaning you could have much smaller hot air outlets at the back of the car. What I am saying is I am surprised the engineers haven't considered using different materials. Carbon fibre seems to be used in F1 for the sake of using it.

How do you know they didn't consider it? Because they don't use it?
'Perhaps' they don't use it.. because it isn't necessary to do so.. + probably using the light weight carbon fibre brings more performance, than having the best heat conducting material with the added weight it brings..

[a1b2i3r45]

Why do teams still insist on using carbon fibre engine covers and sidepods when it has terrible heat conduction properties and retains the heat produced from the radiators? Aluminium although heavy is much better at conducting heat and would therefore be much better in areas of high heat concentration under the engine cover as it transfers heat much quicker from inside the engine cover to the atmosphere.

Carbon retains the heat produced? Sounds like a pretty good idea to use carbon then. Teams duct and channel the cooling airflow as optimally as possible through the heat exchangers out of the car. Adding heat conducting bodywork(like aluminium) to the car simply means you're adding another heat exchanger to the car for no good reason. Plus, the added weight is an immense downside as well.

Do you even understand what you have put? Why are you talking about heat exchangers? Carbon fibre in the use of an engine cover is quite bad because it retains heat around the engine rather than transfer it into the atmosphere. Teams use gold foil in certain areas because it has a high heat conductivity so transfers heat from very hot areas quickly. If you were to use aluminium heat would escape much quicker meaning you could have much smaller hot air outlets at the back of the car. What I am saying is I am surprised the engineers haven't considered using different materials. Carbon fibre seems to be used in F1 for the sake of using it.

May be they are trying to extract more downforce at the back from the hot air outlets. The more hot the air the more energy it has hence more downforce.

[Jackles-UK]

Not that this has anything to do with the MP4-30 (and I fully expect the mods to clear this out sooner rather than later) but there is more to consider than just weight and heat retention when selecting materials for things. Carbon fibre is not only lighter and stiffer than most other options but is also very easy to form into complex shapes and contours. Making an engine/side pod cover from aluminium would require either a gigantic steel press plate and hundreds of tons of hydraulic pressure (which would also impart stress on parts of the shape) or panel beaters taking many many hours of work. CF is layered up as a lovely flexible fabric over a mould (which these days is probably 3D printed) and then cured once the basic shape has been achieved.

Aside from that there is also the fact that driving round in what would be essentially a 200mph heat sink is far from what would be considered safe. Using the skin itself to disipate heat rather than keeping it in and dispersing elsewhere means that one splash of petrol or oil and you have a fire on your hands - spectacular, yes; wise, definitely not! Recovery by the marshals also becomes more hazardous. They already have to wear rubber insulated gloves thanks to the electrical hybrid systems used nowadays and they would essentially need oven gloves on top of them to protect from burns!

[wesley123]

May be they are trying to extract more downforce at the back from the hot air outlets. The more hot the air the more energy it has hence more downforce.

It's not that hot, plus, it's messy air as it went through draggy radiators

[a1b2i3r45]

May be they are trying to extract more downforce at the back from the hot air outlets. The more hot the air the more energy it has hence more downforce.

It's not that hot, plus, it's messy air as it went through draggy radiators

yes, but they are still channelling it through the side pod outlets over the wing shaped suspension arms and the diffuser to generate downforce.

[Sevach]

Not only (as Wesley123 said) radiator air is travelling at slower speeds than the air going around the bodywork, suspension arms happen to be aero neutral.

[diffuser]

Not only (as Wesley123 said) radiator air is travelling at slower speeds than the air going around the bodywork, suspension arms happen to be aero neutral.

It maybe slower but it will ENERGIZE the air going around the body work. I'm sure the air coming out of an exhaust pipe in the exhaust blown era wasn't traveling at the speed of the air around the body work. They used it anyways

[Moose]

Not only (as Wesley123 said) radiator air is travelling at slower speeds than the air going around the bodywork, suspension arms happen to be aero neutral.

It maybe slower but it will ENERGIZE the air going around the body work. I'm sure the air coming out of an exhaust pipe in the exhaust blown era wasn't traveling at the speed of the air around the body work. They used it anyways

The air coming out of the exhaust was 800°C above ambient though. The air coming out of the hot air exits is 60° above ambient. That's a big difference in energy level. The fact that they're exiting it above the diffuser indicates that it actually carries less energy than the air around it - they want to slow the air over the top of the diffuser down.

They used to exit the exhausts under the diffuser because it got the air moving very fast due to it's high energy, quite the reverse here.

[outer_bongolia]

It maybe slower but it will ENERGIZE the air going around the body work. I'm sure the air coming out of an exhaust pipe in the exhaust blown era wasn't traveling at the speed of the air around the body work. They used it anyways

Hi diffuser.
I'm sorry, but the exhaust speed in the pre-MGU-H days was more than 400km/s (plus add the high exhaust temperature).

[Sevach]

I'm sure the air coming out of an exhaust pipe in the exhaust blown era wasn't traveling at the speed of the air around the body work. They used it anyways

Yeah, it wasn't, it was travelling much much faster...

[crbassassin]

Teams use gold foil in certain areas because it has a high heat conductivity so transfers heat from very hot areas quickly.

I thought it was to reflect infrared rays away from the gold foil surface. Silver would've been a better choice if it was to conduct heat away from a heat source, as it has a better heat conductivity coefficient than gold.

[Jef Patat]

Teams use gold foil in certain areas because it has a high heat conductivity so transfers heat from very hot areas quickly.

I thought it was to reflect infrared rays away from the gold foil surface. Silver would've been a better choice if it was to conduct heat away from a heat source, as it has a better heat conductivity coefficient than gold.

That was my understanding as well.

[crbassassin]

Why do teams still insist on using carbon fibre engine covers and sidepods when it has terrible heat conduction properties and retains the heat produced from the radiators?

I think this is matter is very minute in relation to the power unit problem McLaren is facing at the moment.

[CjC]

So the problem with the PU?

Is it plain rubbish or is it unreliable and the power is constantly turned down?

[n_anirudh]

With regards to the rear wing flap, I found this article from a conference I recently attended:

http://people.eng.unimelb.edu.au/imarus ... /19/72.pdf

At lower Reynolds numbers, the sinusoidal leading edge seems to send off counter rotating vortices, which may keep the flow attached soon after the closure of the DRS or run the wing at a higher AoA.