Token Tactics

[timbo]

On Sky they said Merc used 25, Ferrari 22, Renault 20.

[Sevach]

Nothing can stop a manufacturer to test and develop their engine for years before entering F1. This one year delay could also be a huge advantage - imagine if Honda entered with a super powerful and reliable engine right from the start and the other manufacturers were stuck with what they have and no way to improve it.

would be the first time in the history of F1 if that happened
didn't even happen back in the days of unlimited testing

BMW turned up with one of the best engines on the grid in 2000...

BMW sucked in 2000, in 2001 they came up with a monstrously powerfull engine(still heavy and unreliable though).
Of course in those days you could throw your previous engine in the trash and come up with a brand new one.

Kudos to Ferrari if they managed to close that gap while using less tokens.

Assuming Sky knows what their talking about, Honda gets 9 to fix the mess...

[pob]

On Sky they said Merc used 25, Ferrari 22, Renault 20.

That matches the official numbers http://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/ ... Tokens.pdf
Honda will get 9 tokens to spend.

[iotar__]

Why is 9,66 rounded down, is FIA's maths as everything else like ethics, eyesight, consistency in applying every rule different than in a normal world? Ferrari: what, they're still getting the same amount, what kind of advantage is that?! FIA: calm down, we'll round it down. - Oh... all right then

As for Ferrari closing the gap 1. it's only 13% (or maybe 14 I don't know) how do we know it's not the chassis, FRIC, weight or a combination? If it were Red Bull we'd be hearing how much engine costs them, Ferrari can't really shout loudly their engine sucks 2. there are tokens and there are tokens. 3. planning for 2016 and managing the gap by Merc, it doesn't really matter in 2015, they're winning everything easily anyway.

[Lorenzo_Bandini]

It's rounded down because the FIA have decide too. Why are you talking about Ferrari ?

[iotar__]

It's rounded down because the FIA have decide too. Why are you talking about Ferrari ?

1. "Why" was the question not who. 2. I was checking if it's correct 3. Ferrari is a side that benefits from loopholes and rounding.
From Mercedes thread

It appears the W06 is not all about the pony in the back.
http://paddocktalk.com/news/html/story-273728.html
Pat Symonds: "over a lap, the Ferrari engine is basically at Mercedes' level."

Looks like Ferrari did close the gap then and I was wrong doubting it.

[Moose]

It's rounded down because the FIA have decide too. Why are you talking about Ferrari ?

1. "Why" was the question not who.

The answer is simple - because that's what was agreed between the teams.

[pob]

I don't think the teams had any input in the rule that was made up from thin air for Honda this year.

[Sevach]

Seeing a Sauber beat a Red Bull fair and square shows the kind of jump Ferrari made.
Let's see what kind of progress they make from here.

Renault and Honda are in a whole lot of trouble.

[lebesset]

Seeing a Sauber beat a Red Bull fair and square shows the kind of jump Ferrari made.
Let's see what kind of progress they make from here.

Renault and Honda are in a whole lot of trouble.

I think that the comment about renault and honda being in a whole lot of trouble is premature

nobody expects that the others will catch mercedes this year ....apart from the fact that mercedes were not run at full power today [ anyone doubt that ? ] hamilton was just cruising ...i didn't see 100% of the race due to ads but I didn't even see one puff off smoke as he braked during the whole race ; so ferrari looked to have made more progress than they ,in comparison , really have

renault clearly have some reliability problems , and there are major improvements due by mid season from Ilmor

honda are running detuned due to major reliablity problems and have as many tokens available as the others

and don't forget they have get out of jail free cards for reliability fixes

i personally don't have the slightest idea what potential improvement is possible from the various tokens ..maybe somebody does ! clearly the number used is just part of the story !

[WaikeCU]

Is it not too risky to use the tokens to upgrade the PU's to gain more performance? I mean how are they going to test this when testing isn't allowed during the season? Yes, perhaps it does make the car have better performance, but is it reliable?

[giantfan10]

It's rounded down because the FIA have decide too. Why are you talking about Ferrari ?

1. "Why" was the question not who. 2. I was checking if it's correct 3. Ferrari is a side that benefits from loopholes and rounding.
From Mercedes thread

It appears the W06 is not all about the pony in the back.
http://paddocktalk.com/news/html/story-273728.html
Pat Symonds: "over a lap, the Ferrari engine is basically at Mercedes' level."

Looks like Ferrari did close the gap then and I was wrong doubting it.

Williams mercedes and the factory team are 2 entirely different levels... there should be no doubt about that..Ferrari more than likely have reached the level of the preffered costumer team williams... reaching the factory team output level is another story entirely...
in my opinion all this yalk about mercedes superior aero is a farce...more horsepower allows u to run more downforce with little or no penalty.. pretty simple really... doesnt sound as good as mercedes being geniuses though lol

[FW17]

Williams charge air cooling is not the same as the Mercedes (in fact no one has got a decent picture of their intercooler)

Obviously there is going to be a difference in power levels

PS - If Merc is using a liquid - air intercooler, they might be the only team as Ferrari look to have for to an air - air setup

[iotar__]

Williams mercedes and the factory team are 2 entirely different levels... there should be no doubt about that..Ferrari more than likely have reached the level of the preffered costumer team williams... reaching the factory team output level is another story entirely...
in my opinion all this yalk about mercedes superior aero is a farce...more horsepower allows u to run more downforce with little or no penalty.. pretty simple really... doesnt sound as good as mercedes being geniuses though lol

Williams charge air cooling is not the same as the Mercedes (in fact no one has got a decent picture of their intercooler) Obviously there is going to be a difference in power levels PS - If Merc is using a liquid - air intercooler, they might be the only team as Ferrari look to have for to an air - air setup

It's off-topic so quickly:
I believe Symonds was talking about Merc engine in general. I don't know how it can be obvious that power levels of Williams and Merc engine differ, it's not obvious for a driver and technical director. At least the latter didn't say it. Not technical but I'm guessing: cooling has the same purpose on both cars (unless one option can't achieve levels required) affects aero and reliability more than anything else and I see no evidence it's inadequate and thus forces Williams to drive underpowered which is what you claim. You can only be below maximum and I think they can measure those. There's also fuel = unknown.

[mertol]

How much power difference equals 1sec per lap? If they indeed have less power is it still more than Ferrari? Why do you think it is more plausible that williams have good aero than that they have the same power as mercedes when they have not been a top team in recent years (before the super merc engine). I believe this and last year williams still had an average car just like before that and were only good because of the superb engine.