New 2015 fuel flow Directive

[dans79]

What does everyone make of this?
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/118066

Seems to me, the FIA must think or strongly suspect a team is breaking/bending the rules. Personally I can't fathom how a team could achieve a higher pressure/flow rate with out using something blatantly illegal like an accumulator or a secondary pump.

[Cold Fussion]

My guess is they less confidence in the fuel flow sensor since accumulation is already specifically banned.

[gruntguru]

Varying the fuel pressure between the tank and the engine will produce a small change in the mass of fuel contained in that section of the system ie "accumulation". Because the accumulation is occurring after the flow meter, a temporary increase in fuel flow to the engine can be achieved when the "accumulated" quantity is reduced - through the engine of course. The change would be due to elasticity of the fuel lines and compressibility of the fuel ie no obvious "accumulator" type device would need to be present.

[dans79]

The change would be due to elasticity of the fuel lines and compressibility of the fuel ie no obvious "accumulator" type device would need to be present.

I would assume the compressibility of the fuel is very very low, considering it's a fluid, so they would have to have a huge pressure increase to see a meaningful amount of compressibility. The fuel lines are solid metal tubing aren't they? I would assume they aren't very elastic either.

[gruntguru]

If someone is scamming the rules, it would be very easy to custom make some "flexy" fuel lines.
Fuel flow is 28 g/s say 35 cc/s. One extra cc per second is a 3% power boost.

[giantfan10]

If someone is scamming the rules, it would be very easy to custom make some "flexy" fuel lines.
Fuel flow is 28 g/s say 35 cc/s. One extra cc per second is a 3% power boost.

That has mercedes written all over it... the Fia is good at slowing down dominant teams

[countersteer]

The spirit of Smokey Yunick lives on...

For example: In 1968, he said NASCAR specified how big a fuel tank could be, but he noticed no one said how big the fuel line could be. Instead of a half-inch fuel line, Yunick created a two-inch fuel line that was 11 feet long, and held five gallons of gas. Cheating? Not really, since nowhere did it say you couldn't do that.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/a6 ... ng-cheats/

[hurril]

If someone is scamming the rules, it would be very easy to custom make some "flexy" fuel lines.
Fuel flow is 28 g/s say 35 cc/s. One extra cc per second is a 3% power boost.

That has mercedes written all over it... the Fia is good at slowing down dominant teams

Why so?

[gruntguru]

I just did a quick check on the compressibility of gasoline. Its bulk modulus is 1.3 x 10^9 Pa. If you take the extreme case of an in-tank pump capable of 500 bar pressure and operating between 50 and 500 bar to compress the fuel between tank and engine, the density of that fuel will vary by a little over 3%. If the lines hold 1 litre that is a variation of 30cc. Remember, this is just the fuel compressing, flex in the lines is extra.

[gruntguru]

I just had another thought. Reducing the pressure in the lines will cause lighter components of the fuel to vaporise if the pressure is reduced below the vapor pressure of that component. This would potentially allow ALL THE FUEL between the flow meter and the pump at the engine to be used for a short term power boost.

[dans79]

I just did a quick check on the compressibility of gasoline. Its bulk modulus is 1.3 x 10^9 Pa. If you take the extreme case of an in-tank pump capable of 500 bar pressure and operating between 50 and 500 bar to compress the fuel between tank and engine, the density of that fuel will vary by a little over 3%. If the lines hold 1 litre that is a variation of 30cc. Remember, this is just the fuel compressing, flex in the lines is extra.

ok, you kind of proved my point. You only get 3% compression with a dealta P of 450.

[giantfan10]

If someone is scamming the rules, it would be very easy to custom make some "flexy" fuel lines.
Fuel flow is 28 g/s say 35 cc/s. One extra cc per second is a 3% power boost.

That has mercedes written all over it... the Fia is good at slowing down dominant teams

Why so?

sinple logic says its mercedes
ferrari was dominant..... suddenly testing was banned and so on
red bull was dominant... suddenly the blown diffuser was banned
see the trend?

[dans79]

sinple logic says its mercedes
ferrari was dominant..... suddenly testing was banned and so on
red bull was dominant... suddenly the blown diffuser was banned
see the trend?

stop with the conspiracy theory garbage already. No one has even proven how a team could make something. Even Scarabs didn't give an example of how the rule could be cheated.

[giantfan10]

sinple logic says its mercedes
ferrari was dominant..... suddenly testing was banned and so on
red bull was dominant... suddenly the blown diffuser was banned
see the trend?

stop with the conspiracy theory garbage already. No one has even proven how a team could make something. Even Scarabs didn't give an example of how the rule could be cheated.

i dont care who could or couldnt figure it out... how about you stop with the holier than though garbage?
my best guess is that merceds is the target based on the Fia's past history
let me guess another mercedes fanboy throwing around insults ..... go bark up another tree i'm not the one

[dans79]

i dont care who could or couldnt figure it out...

If no one can even remotely provide a viable possibility of how a team might accomplish something like this, then its either a bs rule for the sake of having one more, or the FIA trying to add drama/intrigue to the season.