Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

[speedy56]

If I understand the new rules correctly, the replacement of a whole PU would incur a 25 position grid penalty. 5 places for every component of the PU. Unlike 2014, that penalty isn't carried over to the next races.

Not that bad I guess.

Yeah, but if they cant "spend" all 25 grid places, they have to do a drive through or a stop%go, anyway, back to the topic

[ChrisM40]

Well engine issues aside the car does seem to handle well. After rewatching the race it was clear the McHonda was an easy match for the FI around the twisty bits. Given that its not much behind in raw pace, but clearly way down on power I think it will be very quick if they get they engine working properly.

[KingHamilton01]

Does anyone expect McLaren to bring Aero updates to Malaysia? or will they be focusing purely on engine and cooling solution's? they are still in launch configuration and didn't even run a monkey seat this weekend. Perhaps they didn't have enough data before this weekend to go away and start planning the next set of upgrades to the car.

[ScottB]

Does anyone expect McLaren to bring Aero updates to Malaysia? or will they be focusing purely on engine and cooling solution's? they are still in launch configuration and didn't even run a monkey seat this weekend. Perhaps they didn't have enough data before this weekend to go away and start planning the next set of upgrades to the car.

Would there be much value?

I know they keep saying the car is a good base, but essentially they've yet to really see what it can do at full race pace, until they do, is it worth adding updates? Are they so far off the pace that it might be hard to discern if a new part was working correctly or not when not running at the sort of pace / lap time it would be intended for?

[JoeE]

Id agree, the PU should be the focus.

Anyone know anything about the software they run?

[markp]

Id agree, the PU should be the focus.

Anyone know anything about the software they run?

Who knows. Educated guess would be Windows 95.

[Per]

I think McLaren is ready to bring aero updates if they wanted to. The thing is I don't think they want to; for now they'll still occupy the last places anyway (maybe with Manor behind them) and bringing out updates now might allow the competition to copy them by the time McLaren wants to start fighting for points.

[Thefuelman]

Does anyone expect McLaren to bring Aero updates to Malaysia? or will they be focusing purely on engine and cooling solution's? they are still in launch configuration and didn't even run a monkey seat this weekend. Perhaps they didn't have enough data before this weekend to go away and start planning the next set of upgrades to the car.

I can't see Alonso diving into the Mclaren with a big grin and qualyfying in 19th or 20th. with the tyre gains and good weather i have a hint that the manor cars would give mclaren a serious run for their money had they run in melbourne based on their speed in last years qualyfying session. Off topic I know but at best I forsee Alonso being a free agent at the end of the year due to performance clauses. I may go as far as saying he may pull a 1995 Nigel Mansell at McLaren, appear for a few races before realising this is a hopeless cause and calling time on his career on the grounds of ill health.... Merely speculation, don't beat up on me for it.
As for developments chassis wise, If Red Bull are saying their engine woes are preventing them from exploring the limits of their cars in order to develop the chassis in a concise direction I would expect the current state of play at McLaren to effectively rule out any (major) Aero development for quite some time. Tootling round 6 seconds a lap slower than the frontrunners isn't going to push the car to its limits. Im going to hazard a guess that you could bolt on upgrades and never really know how they are affecting the car as your performance is held back by the engine. Like Alan McNish said, if your driving 6 seconds of the pace or so most cars on the grid would probably feel nice and well balanced. Its not likely the case at all but in theory they could have a car only marginally better than the MP4/28, but they could never know.

[DrScenario]

Has anyone noticed that the on-screen graphics show the McLaren cars to always be at wide open throttle? I noticed this in quali and thought it might just be a glitch with the telemetry, but the same thing happened during the race. Here is a clip showing what I'm talking about from lap 43 of the race: http://gfycat.com/PointedExhaustedCow

Is it possible that McLaren is doing something creative with their throttle control? Could they be essentially using the engine as a pump during deceleration to keep the exhaust volume up, generating extra energy via the MGU-H, or at least to keep the turbo spooled? It reminds me of what Red Bull was rumored to be doing in the exhaust blown diffuser days.

I'm inclined to believe it is just bad data, but you can see the throttle percentage waver a tiny bit and I'd think flawed telemetry would just report a fixed 100% all the time. I'm also inclined to believe this is the sort of thing that could be giving them so much trouble with the power unit.

[Waffle]

Has anyone noticed that the on-screen graphics show the McLaren cars to always be at wide open throttle? I noticed this in quali and thought it might just be a glitch with the telemetry, but the same thing happened during the race. Here is a clip showing what I'm talking about from lap 43 of the race: http://gfycat.com/PointedExhaustedCow

Is it possible that McLaren is doing something creative with their throttle control? Could they be essentially using the engine as a pump during deceleration to keep the exhaust volume up, generating extra energy via the MGU-H, or at least to keep the turbo spooled? It reminds me of what Red Bull was rumored to be doing in the exhaust blown diffuser days.

I'm inclined to believe it is just bad data, but you can see the throttle percentage waver a tiny bit and I'd think flawed telemetry would just report a fixed 100% all the time. I'm also inclined to believe this is the sort of thing that could be giving them so much trouble with the power unit.

Well spotted. That's really odd. Of course, as you say it could just be dodgy data. Surely it's not something clever they're doing with the engine, because surely this graphic would show driver application of throttle (?).

One thing that has confused me is the statements that Button's been making about saving fuel, as if they were doing this more than other teams. Having the throttle open and the brakes on at the same time would certainly explain this!

[Jef Patat]

One thing that has confused me is the statements that Button's been making about saving fuel, as if they were doing this more than other teams. Having the throttle open and the brakes on at the same time would certainly explain this!

I think their ERS is not or only partially working. To keep a decent speed with the ICE alone could mean it has to work harder and thus consume more hence the need for saving.

[Mopilot]

Hi guys,

My first post here!
As being both a mechanical and electronics engineer I really like this development forum!

I would like to come back n the different sound the Honda engine makes in comaprison to the others. I was Lucky to be on circuit during the last Barcelona test and have made a sound list on engine sounds, or music if you would like

Mercedes: loudest engine on track, the "roar" during partial throttle (probably caused by switching of some cylinders) is mild.
Renault: The most quiet engine on track, also the roar sound is very low, but still there.
Ferrari: somewhere in between the Merc and Renault.

The Honda: This one sounds really different from all other, off course we know that after last weekends race, but I think it is very interesting. Especially at partial throttle, to "roar" sounds is very different and much louder than any other engine on the grid. And overall this engine sounds a bit more rough, than the others.

I don't think/expect that this is purely due to the fact the PU is not on its best yet, but because of something that Honda has made different to all other manufacturers. What do you think?

[ian_s]

I think the unique sound of the Honda will be purely down to the way they have implemented cylinder cutting. the sound is far too consistent to be a an unplanned misfire.

[GoranF1]

http://www.formula1.com/content/fom-web ... medium.jpg

I am surprised that Honda did choose this layout of the turbo/MGU-H..
From the results of last year they should have made a better design. Either a copy of Merc or something similar.
Their design seems to be the worst from a thermal standpoint.
Is the seal they are having problems with in the MGU-H?

they didn't this picture shows wrong layout of Honda PU,a Honda engineer has confirmed to Scarbs.

[ringo]

I am starting to think that Alonso crashed the car and missed the first race because of what he knew about the development time to be competitive. I have a feeling that Alonso will not sit in that car until it can qualify in Q3. So expect Magnussen to be driving the first half of the season.

As for the PU. I think Honda is doing something very different to the other teams. I think the engine's mapping and programming is very granular and specific to each turn of each track, and it's this that could be causing problems. The engine doesn't seem to be able to run on environmental properties alone like load, air temp, etc. It's needs historical data from previous races, but unfortunately Mclaren doesn't seem to have much data from last year as it relates to the engine.

One question i have now is why was the engine detuned for Australian GP temperatures?
This sound like the body work is too tight, and the car could not manage the heat properly. If this is the case, then imagine the hotter races?