Mclaren MP4-30 Honda

[Per]

Do you even understand what you have put? Why are you talking about heat exchangers? Carbon fibre in the use of an engine cover is quite bad because it retains heat around the engine rather than transfer it into the atmosphere. Teams use gold foil in certain areas because it has a high heat conductivity so transfers heat from very hot areas quickly. If you were to use aluminium heat would escape much quicker meaning you could have much smaller hot air outlets at the back of the car. What I am saying is I am surprised the engineers haven't considered using different materials. Carbon fibre seems to be used in F1 for the sake of using it.

How do you know, you've gone around all teams and found out about their design trade studies?

Anyway, if you ever held some carbon fibre bodywork panels in your hands, you'll know why. These things can be made so light not only because of better specific stiffness and strength, but also because it is hard to manufacture really thin double curved aluminium panels. With carbon you could make complex double curved shapes 0.2mm thick if you wanted to, try to do that with metal.

[timbo]

Is it the worst qualifying seance for McLaren ?

Might be, probably since 1983 US GP. But actually they won that race. The chances for repeating of this feat is very unlikely...

[Jolle]

Looks like Mclaren took big risks to build a winning car from the start, with narrow margins and all tightly packed. I guess it's in their DNA, to design a car that could win races instead of building a test platform (with extra cooling, good and fast acces to electronics, etc).

I don't think Honda made any big mistakes with the ICE, thats pretty straight forward design for a racing company (because of the low revs), so the biggest problem would be in the electronics, wire loom and software. Most of those can be changed without tokens.

So, McLaren has the aero to win, the ICE to win, just have to fix the electronics.... so who knows, they might still surprise us!

but looking in hindsight, with the amount of money wasted in these first few races (not just the whole pm4-30 design, but also two WC drivers), for the same money they could have bought Manor or Catheram last year and raced/tested the Honda engine before it went to McLaren.

[KingHamilton01]

Looks like Mclaren took big risks to build a winning car from the start, with narrow margins and all tightly packed. I guess it's in their DNA, to design a car that could win races instead of building a test platform (with extra cooling, good and fast acces to electronics, etc).

I don't think Honda made any big mistakes with the ICE, thats pretty straight forward design for a racing company (because of the low revs), so the biggest problem would be in the electronics, wire loom and software. Most of those can be changed without tokens.

So, McLaren has the aero to win, the ICE to win, just have to fix the electronics.... so who knows, they might still surprise us!

but looking in hindsight, with the amount of money wasted in these first few races (not just the whole pm4-30 design, but also two WC drivers), for the same money they could have bought Manor or Catheram last year and raced/tested the Honda engine before it went to McLaren.

Finally someone with some logic and sense, I like this post and I think later in the season McLaren will surprise a lot of people!

[mclaren111]

Very nice picture of new FW:

[mclaren111]

Somersf1:

Looks like different Vanity Panel to me ??

[Richard]

The car threads are for discussion about the features of the car. If your comment isn't about something on the car then it doesn't belong in this thread. Nearly 8 pages have been moved or deleted:

• Speculation about Honda PU power http://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewto ... ead#unread
• Generic speculation about Ron-speak
• Alonso's super powers
• Listing lap and sector times

[/i]

[SidSidney]

Carbon fibre in the use of an engine cover is quite bad because it retains heat around the engine rather than transfer it into the atmosphere. Teams use gold foil in certain areas because it has a high heat conductivity so transfers heat from very hot areas quickly.

Would it be possible to make the entire engine cover permeable in one direction, like Goretex, so that it can "breathe" - radiate hot gasses effectively from inside to outside, but retain a smooth external surface for aero purposes?

I know as usual on F1Technical there will be the "the hot air will screw up the airflow blah blah blah look how smart and clever I am to have found the hole in your stupid idea" but can we for just one moment pause to consider a stiff material that would work like this, even if it would not work in this application?

[SidSidney]

Very nice picture of new FW:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-26FU5NVlUkY/V ... 3ma200.jpg

That channel from outside gutter to inside is interesting, what are they doing there?

[Thunder]

Would it be possible to make the entire engine cover permeable in one direction, like Goretex, so that it can "breathe" - radiate hot gasses effectively from inside to outside, but retain a smooth external surface for aero purposes?

I know as usual on F1Technical there will be the "the hot air will screw up the airflow blah blah blah look how smart and clever I am to have found the hole in your stupid idea" but can we for just one moment pause to consider a stiff material that would work like this, even if it would not work in this application?

Feel free to meke a new Thread about it, but this one is not the right Place for that discussion.

[FrukostScones]

https://translate.google.de/translate?s ... t=&act=url

oh dear, of course it's an italian publication but we seen the truth in Australia

[Thunder]

Wow, a downvote for a post stating the obvious? Jeez whoever did that, calm down,

Edit: To actually clear up my above Post: I think the Topic itself is interresting, thats why is suggested a new Thread. But it simply doesn't belong in the MP4-30 Thread. Remember, "if it isn't on the Car, it doesn't belong in the Thread".

[Redragon]

https://translate.google.de/translate?s ... t=&act=url

oh dear, of course it's an italian publication but we seen the truth in Australia

Omnicorse feeling a bit cocky hence Ferrari has improved slightly, let's see at the end of the year where this Mclaren stands.

[daveyrace]

Do you even understand what you have put? Why are you talking about heat exchangers? Carbon fibre in the use of an engine cover is quite bad because it retains heat around the engine rather than transfer it into the atmosphere. Teams use gold foil in certain areas because it has a high heat conductivity so transfers heat from very hot areas quickly. If you were to use aluminium heat would escape much quicker meaning you could have much smaller hot air outlets at the back of the car. What I am saying is I am surprised the engineers haven't considered using different materials. Carbon fibre seems to be used in F1 for the sake of using it.

How do you know, you've gone around all teams and found out about their design trade studies?

Anyway, if you ever held some carbon fibre bodywork panels in your hands, you'll know why. These things can be made so light not only because of better specific stiffness and strength, but also because it is hard to manufacture really thin double curved aluminium panels. With carbon you could make complex double curved shapes 0.2mm thick if you wanted to, try to do that with metal.

They do appear to be doing a hybrid material to this effect. to get the best of both materials.
I had a look through some of the old pictures to find one I had seen to illustrate my point. Yes they do use carbon fibre for the cover because it is lightweight but there is what appears to be an aluminium coating ( it could be a sprayed ceramic one?) on the inside face of this part. I would assume it would be there for heat management reasons, whether that is to protect the carbon parts from the heat or to dissipate it, is entirely guesswork. I have seen it on several teams bodywork round the engine bay and also on brake components.


If you feel this needs to be in a seperate thread then feel free to move it. It could be an interesting topic on its own.

[PlatinumZealot]

The Carbon resin can be impregnated with aluminum if they ever needed to (check something like thermal paste with aluminum filings in it). And gold foil is very conductive that is true but it is a heat reflector first of all.

Cooling is not Mclaren's problem. Heating of parts that cannot be easily cooled is their problem.
Their problems is parts that are in an extreme heat affected zones. Parts tucked deep into engine... Boreing some holes would not be enough. They have to redesign those parts that have the "hot spots."