Mclaren MP4-30 Honda

[ringo]

It can also be under the fuel tank inline on the front end of the crankshaft, and preheating the fuel or something crazy like that. though chances are it doesn't get much cooling in this position.

[OO7]

It can also be under the fuel tank inline on the front end of the crankshaft, and preheating the fuel or something crazy like that. though chances are it doesn't get much cooling in this position.

Which is the problem Honda have been having with the MGU-K. Overheating.

Also looking at the following images:




We can see that the Mercedes MGU-H must be placed quite low in the 'V', and has survived pretty well. With the Honda system, I'd expect the MGU-K to sit at roughly the same height as the Mercedes MGU-H and the MGU-H and turbo to sit above that, so less compact vertically than the Mercedes V6T.

[maguetox]

....

My feeling is that the MGUK is in the middle of the "V" of the ICE, that place must be really difficult to cool down, no only to feed fresh air but more important to extract the hot air without affecting other components of the PU.

Hmm.. Honda like making flat motors in their road cars... I wonder if they have the MGU-K behind the clutch.

http://s.hswstatic.com/gif/honda-civic-hybrid-2.jpg

Moment of inertia is high... but the Fomula 1 unit could be much much smaller and lighter...

http://oi58.tinypic.com/5l3uow.jpg

If I had to guess, I'd say they have gone for a Mercedes like split turbo, that sits higher in the 'V' with the MGU-K fitted lower down within the 'V'.

By Craig Scarborough information, the Honda PU have a split turbo, so I would say the first two drawing are of, the one that looks more challenging is the one that you are suggesting, but they must have a really complex gearing in there in order to make it work, more gearing, more friction, less efficient.

We need a really good spied picture soon.

[maguetox]

@maguetox: I think you are confusing the MGU-K with the MGU-H. The H interacts with the turbine and is put in the V of the engine for some designs. The K interacts with the crankshaft, so needs to be put very close to it, so will most likely be very low down for better weight distribution and ease of connecting it to the crankshaft.

Thanks for the clarification, but what is by using gearing they connect the crankshaft with the MGUK, I think It can be done, it have its cons, but would help with the packaging and that could explains the cooling issues of the engine

[akshat21]

Very nice article on Somers F1 Blog regarding Mclaren Honda. He also goes into cylinder de-activation and the unique sound that McHonda has compared to others. Kinda long but still worth a read.

Link

[RicME85]

Dont forget what Scarbs said when Honda released there albeit photoshopped images of the PU.

[dren]

We can see that the Mercedes MGU-H must be placed quite low in the 'V', and has survived pretty well. With the Honda system, I'd expect the MGU-K to sit at roughly the same height as the Mercedes MGU-H and the MGU-H and turbo to sit above that, so less compact vertically than the Mercedes V6T.

I find it very hard to believe the MGUK would be anywhere close to the V of the ICE. It's likely very close to the crank, either jutting forward into the tank, or towards the back and to the side like the Mercedes and others.

Moving your MGUK, MGUH, and Turbo higher would really put a hamper on your COG.

[FW17]

A section of a V in case people need to understand the space

[(from the Honda V8) the Turbo engine will not have the injector rail]

[Mopilot]

Thanks for the link, that's an interesting story!
At least an other one thinking that Honda is doing something quiet differently on CD (Cylinder Deactivation)

[hurril]

Thanks for the link, that's an interesting story!
At least an other one thinking that Honda is doing something quiet differently on CD (Cylinder Deactivation)

But aren't they all doing cylinder deactivation? It's been audible from the start of the 2014-season that they all do.

[maguetox]

Dont forget what Scarbs said when Honda released there albeit photoshopped images of the PU.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlnS7OZ9bnU

Thanks for bring back this video, on 5;06 you can see that Craig stated that the round shiny piece of metal is the clutch, what if that is not the clutch and instead that is the MGUK, is obvious that the square box on top of the part is photoshopped and maybe it was putted there to hidden what they have there in reality.

Just another idea of where the MGUK is and find out why is causing so many troubles to the PU.

[rifrafs2kees]

I'd guess the MGU-K is situated at the end of the crankshaft between the transmission and the engine. That makes it a highly stressed member hence the major seal failures...I suppose the seals failed as a result of fatigue and 'crawl' as the engine block, MGU-K and the transmission flexed under g-loads. Currently, that's fixed-tentatively at least.
Jenson's apex speeds couldn't have been low enough to protect any structural elements...at least laterally-loads had to have been in the ball part of other slow cars--His acceleration wasn't nothing to talk about but it wasn't abnormally bad--Perez and force india are my barometer here.
So this leaves us with a strictly energy conversion issue. If the MGU-K cannot be used to full capacity, the weakest link in that system, other than the structural issue aforementioned, is the battery or lack of cooling thereof. There's been no rumors of that.
My 'educated guess' is that it's the MGU-H is the handicapped member here. Specifically there's some mechanical trickery that for now, keeps them from running high boost, which in turn hurts MGU-H performance...2cents

[GoranF1]

I'd guess the MGU-K is situated at the end of the crankshaft between the transmission and the engine. That makes it a highly stressed member hence the major seal failures...I suppose the seals failed as a result of fatigue and 'crawl' as the engine block, MGU-K and the transmission flexed under g-loads. Currently, that's fixed-tentatively at least.
Jenson's apex speeds couldn't have been low enough to protect any structural elements...at least laterally-loads had to have been in the ball part of other slow cars--His acceleration wasn't nothing to talk about but it wasn't abnormally bad--Perez and force india are my barometer here.
So this leaves us with a strictly energy conversion issue. If the MGU-K cannot be used to full capacity, the weakest link in that system, other than the structural issue aforementioned, is the battery or lack of cooling thereof. There's been no rumors of that.
My 'educated guess' is that it's the MGU-H is the handicapped member here. Specifically there's some mechanical trickery that for now, keeps them from running high boost, which in turn hurts MGU-H performance...2cents

Interesting.

What would Honda see as major benefit of placing KERS there?

[OO7]

We can see that the Mercedes MGU-H must be placed quite low in the 'V', and has survived pretty well. With the Honda system, I'd expect the MGU-K to sit at roughly the same height as the Mercedes MGU-H and the MGU-H and turbo to sit above that, so less compact vertically than the Mercedes V6T.

I find it very hard to believe the MGUK would be anywhere close to the V of the ICE. It's likely very close to the crank, either jutting forward into the tank, or towards the back and to the side like the Mercedes and others.

Moving your MGUK, MGUH, and Turbo higher would really put a hamper on your COG.

Arai stated that the MGU-K was hidden in a location that would surprise people. Placing it jutting forward into the tank has been done already by McLaren, when they first started using the Mercedes KERS back in 2009. They subsequently relocated it to the common position, low down beside the engine. Placing the MGU-K at the front of the engine isn't really a hidden location, unless Arai meant 'hidden from view when only the side pod and engine covers are removed'. In any event placing it ahead of the engine isn't really a surprising location.

Mercedes gave us a hint they were splitting their turbo, with the 3D rending they released. The actual race PU turned out to have a more aggressive implementation of the concept. Perhaps the height of the turbo in Honda's 3D rendering is a hint for us.

[dren]

What advantage would putting the MGUK in the V give? You still have to have some form of gear drive to the transmission/crank.

Maybe the MGUK is actually inside the block, incorporated into the crank? I'd believe that before having it placed up high in the V.

Honda directly incorporates their hybrid motors into the transmission with their road cars. Maybe they went that route?