Mclaren MP4-30 Honda

[timbo]

The MGU-K can't be temperature limited. Merc has theirs between the exhaust and the block..a far harsher environment. Mid engine cars have plastic parts in the V so the valley of a V engine isn't as harsh as you'd imagine....unless for an air cooled engine. Merc has their MGU-H in the V which is the same type of electric motor. Again, this same type of motor can be mounted directly to the turbine housing to make an MGU-H ...the turbine housing hits at least 800 C.

I don't think a direct comparison like that works. We don't know exact design, material choice, lubrication etc etc. Also, the way it is installed and what surrounds it. There's too many variables in a complex design like that.

[rifrafs2kees]

Last of this. All things said, what's the evidence supports the argument that the MGUK is overheating? If we're to make an educated guess, the contrary seems more likely

[motobaleno]

Now to make this quick, the entire ICE at about 35% efficiency produces heat a rate in orders of magnitudes greater than 18kW. The point is, if they can cool, the entire engine minus the MGU-K, the additional task of cooling the MGU-K will be easy.

A lot of the heat produced by ICE goes out with exhausts. 18kW of heat is not very small, especially because ICE normally are marginal (e.g. F1 cars don't like to be run slowly, don't like staying stationary with engine running etc). And also the energy density needs to be considered. MGU-K unit is small, so again if it produces that much of heat, things can get really tough in its vicinity.

Decided not to go there but 18kW compared with what goes into the radiator is small. Also this 18KW is super aggressive and if we have an electrical engineer here, he'll say 99% motor efficiency isn't unusual. The MGU-K, isn't working all the time also...unlike the ICE. If MGU-K overheating has been the bulk of their problem, they've had weeks after the first test to start augmenting their cooling. Redbull did that last year. So far there's been zilch sign of that at mclaren

Of course it cannot be a problem of total cooling capacity: that could be easily computed theoretically and confirmed at the dyno...maybe there are some small parts where temperature, due to extreme packaging, increases too fast for cooling to take effect even if the total cooling capacity would be sufficient.

[rifrafs2kees]

MGUK..i never talked about some small part

[diffuser]

Last of this. All things said, what's the evidence supports the argument that the MGUK is overheating? If we're to make an educated guess, the contrary seems more likely

I got this url from the Honda PU Thread. Arai post race interview full transcript. He said it.

http://forums.autosport.com/topic/19703 ... try7087634

[ctdrftna]

This is my 1st post here so don't crucify me. How are other teams transferring power between MGU-K and Crankshaft? Through gears?

Could it be possible that the MGU-K rotor/armature on the MP4-30 is a integral part to the crank shaft, possibly housed in a portion of the cylinder block. It seems odd that they have to completely change engines when it fails (If MGU-K failure is the case). I believe that last year teams would just change the unit itself.

[rifrafs2kees]

I stand corrected, diffuser

[Lucky]

http://www.formula1.com/content/fom-web ... ering.html

[GoranF1]

Button's MP4-30 4th fastest car in Australia corners....slower only t. Mercedes par and Massa.
http://f1news.autoroad.cz/novinky/50227 ... rychlejsi/

[j2004p]

http://www.formula1.com/content/fom-web ... ering.html

Some intriguing stats there, OT: this sort of stuff needs to be neatly integrated into the TV Feed, but Bernie obviously wants to monetize it by making it part of the subscription to the paid for services.

[ojlopez]

This is my 1st post here so don't crucify me. How are other teams transferring power between MGU-K and Crankshaft? Through gears?

Could it be possible that the MGU-K rotor/armature on the MP4-30 is a integral part to the crank shaft, possibly housed in a portion of the cylinder block. It seems odd that they have to completely change engines when it fails (If MGU-K failure is the case). I believe that last year teams would just change the unit itself.

Interesting, I think it might be possible.

[dren]

Like what was speculated, the rotor could be part of the crank, the stator built into the block. The crank and rotor would share oiling circuits since they are the same shaft.

That just seems so complex and a maintenance nightmare compared to how Mercedes is set-up for what seems to be minimal benefit.

[PhillipM]

Minimal benefit is everything in F1 though, especially when it's locked in...

[OO7]

Like what was speculated, the rotor could be part of the crank, the stator built into the block. The crank and rotor would share oiling circuits since they are the same shaft.

That just seems so complex and a maintenance nightmare compared to how Mercedes is set-up for what seems to be minimal benefit.

An MGU-K failure would mean dismantling the engine to some extent, necessitating broken engine seals. Wouldn't this lead to a double F.I.A penalty?

[nevill3]

I personally think it is the energy store that is over heating and not the MGU-k the reports that I have read on here and elsewhere on the web makes me think that the constant charging and discharging are the problems. By running things at lower levels the energy store isn't stressed so much so generates less heat.

Do the technical regulations specify what the energy store must be made of? I know they have to be a certain weight but perhaps Honda or Mclaren have used a new substance that would give them an advantage if they can get the temperatures under control