Espionage at Ferrari and McLaren

[cerebraljl]

[Seas]

PRO, everybody knows about mass dampers. Lot of teams used it with more or less success. Ferrari, McLaren, BMW, Honda, RBR, they all worked on this, and used it in racing, again, with more or less success. But McLaren complained about it because they can’t make it work at all. So, if I can’t use it, nobody will!!! That’s a logic in F1, not only McLaren’s or Ferrari. They are all same. I can think of few complaints for the moment: McLaren about Ferrari and Honda wings, Ferrari about Michelin, Ferrari about McLaren third pedal (brake steering), McLaren about movable floor, again McLaren about mass dampers, Spayker about STR and Super Auguri, again McLaren about Ferrari rear wheel brake ducts, again McLaren about movable floor. Don’t think I have something against McLaren! That are only examples I remember in this moment. There are others, of course!
Dave, Honda got nailed during scrutinizing after race by stewards. Nobody complained about this, and nobody knows anything about this. After draining fuel from the tanks for weighting, they (stewards) found discrepancy in weight. That’s how Honda gets nailed.
In F1 everybody spays everybody. That is like that from beginning 50 years ago. What you think why all of the teams have now encrypted radio transmission on pits. They are all the same. They all listening radio transmitions, making pictures, trying to get other data. But important think is not to be found with hands in others bag. If you are found, you MUST be punished. BY THE RULES!!!!
Tom, Ferrari is taking legal actions against his employee because of steeling their data. I can’t see that McLaren is doing the same with their own employee who, by the way, throw a lot of s**t in RD face. Maybe RD is afraid of something??? Ferrari didn’t give data away, it was stolen! And Ferrari have everything to do with it, that’s why they taking a legal action. And Tom, did you read interview of JT to Autosport? RD and the rest of McLaren executives know all about this data long time ago. Do I believe JT? Why not? Now more then I believe RD!

[allan]

with all do respect, some people's comments are just ridiculous....
So Mclaren are not guilty because they did not use the info, or because coughlen acted by himself. Fair enough!!!Tod said that Dennis knew about the documents from the begining, and Dennis did not deny those claims (he's probably waiting for one of the philosophers here to defend him). I wonder what Coughlen was up to if this whole scandal was not discovered!! He probably had a lot of spare time, and wanted to fill it reading some Ferrari brake system and weigh distribution designs....
Let's look at it the other way around.... Ferrari are leading the championship, and Mclaren suddenly discover that Costa has their designs... What would our philosophers and brilliant thinkers say???
And for that silly argument that Ferrari should be responsible for what Stepney had done...Tell me Sherloks, how would u classify a spying scandal then?? Have u ever heard about some engineer who has an official authorization to steal documents from his team and take it to another designer, who also has the same authorization from his team to recieve those documents? Is that how you'd like it to be done in order to call it "Spying"???

Please people, with all do respect, just think about your comments before posting them. As we all know, it's better to let people think that you are a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt!!!!

[Seas]

And for that silly argument that Ferrari should be responsible for what Stepney had done...Tell me Sherloks, how would u classify a spying scandal then?? Have u ever heard about some engineer who has an official authorization to steal documents from his team and take it to another designer, who also has the same authorization from his team to recieve those documents? Is that how you'd like it to be done in order to call it "Spying"???

Exactly! Good point! Looks like some people are thinking in strange way.
And BTW, on this picture above, you can see that RD is not very rich with IQ. He makes me sick more and more!!

[doorboot]

I do not post often but feel obligated to make a comment. This is without a doubt one of the best seasons in years, the sad thing is that the Ferarri supporters have found an excuse to justify their lack of results ( second on constructors and 3rd and 4th in drivers) despite having a blistering fast car. McLaren supporters are in turn being hypocritical by trying to ignore their good fortune with regards to the punishment (or lack there of ) given to the team. The fact is that this whole issue will be taken up in criminal and civil court. Once this has been concluded will we hopefully know what the real story is. This issue will always be a problem due to the colour of the glases that you view it with. I myself hope that the season doesn't go down the toilet due to this. By the way calling people names and insulting the team principals is counter productive and only highlights your own arrogance.

[m3_lover]

I do not post often but feel obligated to make a comment. This is without a doubt one of the best seasons in years, the sad thing is that the Ferarri supporters have found an excuse to justify their lack of results ( second on constructors and 3rd and 4th in drivers) despite having a blistering fast car. McLaren supporters are in turn being hypocritical by trying to ignore their good fortune with regards to the punishment (or lack there of ) given to the team. The fact is that this whole issue will be taken up in criminal and civil court. Once this has been concluded will we hopefully know what the real story is. This issue will always be a problem due to the colour of the glases that you view it with. I myself hope that the season doesn't go down the toilet due to this. By the way calling people names and insulting the team principals is counter productive and only highlights your own arrogance.

I like this guy...he writes it as it is...lets get on with the racing and be gone with this Ferrari Vs Mclaren spying scandal Flame war

[manchild]

I wish I could be as calmed as doorboot. Unfortunately, I've lost that ability over the years due to influence of enormous injustice I've seen - especially the one coming as the results of court rulings.

How can Ferrari "lawyers" here be sure that those tech data aren't perhaps incorrect ones, made deliberately and than "leaked" in order to bring Mclaren on court and get them stripped of points?

Ferrari should look back in history to see what they've been doing for a decade and shut up in shame. They are the last team in F1 that has the right to cry over injustice.

"Who lives by the sword dies by the sword"

[siskue2005]

Ferrari should look back in history to see what they've been doing for a decade and shut up in shame. They are the last team in F1 that has the right to cry over injustice.

can u give me some examples??

[waynes]

can u give me some examples??

barge boards - malaysia

the farce at austria should have been punished heavily too

[pRo]

Ferrari should look back in history to see what they've been doing for a decade and shut up in shame. They are the last team in F1 that has the right to cry over injustice.

But you got it all wrong, remember what Todt just said? If the roles were reversed, FIA would punish Ferrari harder than anything, cause that's what they always do!



Sorry, I have to go and laugh behind the corner now.

[Rob W]

Ferrari should look back in history to see what they've been doing for a decade and shut up in shame. They are the last team in F1 that has the right to cry over injustice.

Ding ding. Give the man a prize. This call is so valid and bang-on-the-money it isn't funny. The times I've almost given up on F1 because of pro-Ferrari rulings - I lost count ... Yet here they are now crying foul as if they're the pinnacle of good sportsmanship.

Also, I'd like to point out re: the ruling the other day. Ferrari didn't take McLaren to the council. Ferrari didn't do the questioning, nor address McLaren during the trial. The motorsport council did. They included evidence from them no doubt but the 'appellant' in this case was F1, and the 'defendant' McLaren. Ferrari gave evidence for sure but not everything they say can be taken as gospel as anyone whos followed F1 closely for more than five years could testify (no pun intended). And the council were able to see/hear a lot more evidence for and against than we'll likely ever know about and came up with the ruling which they saw fit.

Ferrari, moreso than anybody, should have faith in the rulings of the F1 management body as they've been on the receiving end of more lenient rulings than anyone else.

RW

[FLC]

and still - no examples.
What Ferrari did in Austria was disgusting, but not against the rules at the time. They were changed after. MS had his fine for contempt of the podium ceremony.

The barge boards thing was all wrong, as the FIA stewards measured them with inappropriate tools, such as plasticine and a regular straight ruler.
Not only that, but Ferrari found a hole in the regulations that was meant for the under tray wood board thing, but was phrased badly and could be interpreted for this matter also. The Court asked the FIA to change it.

I wonder what all of you would say if Ferrari was found guilty on this matter, but not given a penalty. Pathetic.

[allan]

I wonder what all of you would say if Ferrari was found guilty on this matter, but not given a penalty. Pathetic.

U don't have to wonder. Look at those silly comments.. They're talking as if Ferrari is the one who's stolen the documents from Mclaren...

When they run out of excuses, they go and hide. SORRY! "LAUGH" behind the corner.....
This isn't only pathetic... It's sick!

[siskue2005]

can u give me some examples??

the farce at austria should have been punished heavily too

what farce at Austria, so what do u have to say about 1998 Australian race , where Mika and DC switched places, exactly as Ferrari did?

and team orders where in F1 since it was founded....there are many many examples, where even more disgusting lead switches where performed

barge boards - malaysia

thats finding a loop hole in the regs
so what about the flexy wings Mclaren have now???
Brake steering stuffs

these are finding loop holes...UNDERSTOOD?

But a broken electronic seal of Mika's car at 2000 Austria race>>>??? ( but this is different--AKA cheating)
they took away their WCC points(if u have seen that season , u will know it)

so who have the right to whine?????????

[pRo]

U don't have to wonder. Look at those silly comments.. They're talking as if Ferrari is the one who's stolen the documents from Mclaren...

When they run out of excuses, they go and hide. SORRY! "LAUGH" behind the corner.....
This isn't only pathetic... It's sick!

Well, the problem is that it's very, VERY, hard to try and engage a reasonable conversation with a Ferrari fan. Most of them are very emotional, which causes issues when talking with someone who isn't pro or con for either team. I've tried and asked simple questions from you (not especially you allan, but Ferrari fans in general) without any answers. It's very hard to discuss matters with people, who refuse to discuss.

I couldn't care less who wins or loses, Ferrari and McLaren are just teams for me, neither really raise any big feelings. I just wish the bloody thing went away and we could continue racing. On track. I cheer for Heikki and hope he would beat Ferrari, McLaren, BMW and whoever is in front of him. I just hope he does it on the track and Ferrari and McLaren or whoever won't be banned from the series.


If you remove the word Ferrari from the posts, many posts look very funny. First you say that a team should be responsible for everything their employees do. Except if they work for Ferrari. What's the logic in that? Either every team is responsible for everything their employees do, or they aren't. So which way is it? Including Ferrari. And McLaren. And BMW. And Renault. And every other team. Can you answer this simple question for me, please?