Toro Rosso STR10 Renault

[Per]

It's not about supporting the wing, it's about supporting the hundreds of kilograms of downforce it generates. An exhaust pipe with it's half a millimetre wall thickness it just not up for that job. The support structure has to go either through it (which is allowed if not in the last 150mm of the tail pipe) or it has to be supported by other means e.g. the engine cover.

[PhillipM]

It doesn't need to support all the downforce, it just needs to assist the end plates and reduce flex in the centre of the wing...

[scarbs]

(I don't think it's the case but) Let's assume the pylon goes through the exhaust: it occupy space inside the tube so less hot exhaust gases pass through it.
Does it help/affect engine performance?

I wonder, if the center support actually does go through the exhaust pipe, if the heating of the center support by exhaust gasses causes the support to expand causing the center section of the rear wing to move upwards slightly relative to the outer edges, which I believe are fixed in position via attachment of the end plates to the floor?

Possible?

I went and had a look. It goes through the exhaust pipe, the exhaust has a teardrop shaped channel welded into it that the gearbox my mount goes through. No exhaust gasses touch the mount.

[F1T]

Toro Rosso bolts rear wing support onto exhaust pipe - Development blog

Introduced at the Australian Grand Prix and continued in Malaysia, Toro Rosso have designed a unique rear wing support that protrudes through the engine's exhaust pipe. A central pillar to common to all teams to help support the aerodynamic forces exhibited by the rear wing to assist the rear wing endplates. Usually though, teams design a carbon fibre fork around the centrally mounted exhaust pipe, or otherwise create a carbon fibre mounting within the engine cover, above the exhaust pipe.

Toro Rosso have now gone for a very unconventional method, fixing a metallic support (marked as B) (most likely made of Grade 6 Titanium alloy) onto the gearbox housing. This support protrudes the exhaust pipe once bolted onto the car (via mounting A), providing a mounting point for the central rear wing pillar.

Obviously, this is technically a viable solution with less elements located in the airflow. The downside is a minor blockage inside the exhaust that may negatively impact engine performance, but it appears as if that doesn't outweigh the advantages for Toro Rosso.

Finally, although not entirely clear, it looks to me like C is a heat insulation wrap around the exhaust pipe.

[Per]

(I don't think it's the case but) Let's assume the pylon goes through the exhaust: it occupy space inside the tube so less hot exhaust gases pass through it.
Does it help/affect engine performance?

I wonder, if the center support actually does go through the exhaust pipe, if the heating of the center support by exhaust gasses causes the support to expand causing the center section of the rear wing to move upwards slightly relative to the outer edges, which I believe are fixed in position via attachment of the end plates to the floor?

Possible?

I went and had a look. It goes through the exhaust pipe, the exhaust has a teardrop shaped channel welded into it that the gearbox my mount goes through. No exhaust gasses touch the mount.

Great, thanks for that!

[-Tifosi_dude-]

Would it be possible to run the exhaust gasses through the rear wing pillar and down through the crash structure to blow the diffuser?

[ME4ME]

Right now Redbull is getting alot of negative attention for their dissapointing performance, and even getting past by their sister team. But let's say it plain and simple: Toro Rosso has done a great job this year, especially relative to their budget. I'm impressed =D>

[matt21]

This looks like a welding seam to me. IMO the load carrying part in this arrangement is the pipe itself. Otherwise they have to weld it in place everytime they remove it.
The bracket shown in the inset above is only for mounting the wing pillar for installation checks when no exhaust is fitted.

[mkable1370]

Would it be possible to run the exhaust gasses through the rear wing pillar and down through the crash structure to blow the diffuser?

Pretty sure the regulations require that all exhaust gasses must exit exclusively through the exhaust pipe. I suppose you could have a blind pipe plumbed to the exhaust which uses the exhaust gas to provide some sort of pressure activation. So long as the exhaust gasses didn't actually exit the system that way I'd think it would be legal.

[Per]

This looks like a welding seam to me. IMO the load carrying part in this arrangement is the pipe itself. Otherwise they have to weld it in place everytime they remove it.
The bracket shown in the inset above is only for mounting the wing pillar for installation checks when no exhaust is fitted.

So they have welded a titanium insert to the exhaust pipe. They will then also have a part welded on the inside like Scarbs said, and the bracket below the pipe. The vertical bits don't form a single continuous part but it doesn't mean they can't transfer load to one another.

I would imagine the insert is indeed welded to the exhaust pipe but the rest of the pylon is somehow removable, although this is not clear from the available pictures.

[ringo]

the loop hole may be that the rules only speak to gasses exiting the pipe. The exit is at the opening at the end, and not before that.

[matt21]

So they have welded a titanium insert to the exhaust pipe. They will then also have a part welded on the inside like Scarbs said, and the bracket below the pipe. The vertical bits don't form a single continuous part but it doesn't mean they can't transfer load to one another.

I would imagine the insert is indeed welded to the exhaust pipe but the rest of the pylon is somehow removable, although this is not clear from the available pictures.

I don´t even think they have welded someting inside, but that the pipe itself acts as a support.

5.8.4 The last 150mm of any tailpipe must in its entirety :
a) Form a thin-walled unobstructed right circular cylinder with its axis +/- 5° to the car centre line when viewed from above the car and between 0° and 5° (tail up) to the reference plane when viewed from the side of the car.

[3jawchuck]

5.8.4 The last 150mm of any tailpipe must in its entirety :
a) Form a thin-walled unobstructed right circular cylinder with its axis +/- 5° to the car centre line when viewed from above the car and between 0° and 5° (tail up) to the reference plane when viewed from the side of the car.

Is it maybe before the last 150 mm?

I seriously doubt the exhaust pipe is supporting that much load. Also, in a previous picture in this thread there is an image without exhaust and support showing a bracket attached.

Here it is:

Look on this pic to see what i mean..
http://img2.auto-motor-und-sport.de/Tor ... 849451.jpg

[Steven]

I went and had a look. It goes through the exhaust pipe, the exhaust has a teardrop shaped channel welded into it that the gearbox my mount goes through. No exhaust gasses touch the mount.

Thanks. I updated the article with your info.

[CBeck113]

So they have welded a titanium insert to the exhaust pipe. They will then also have a part welded on the inside like Scarbs said, and the bracket below the pipe. The vertical bits don't form a single continuous part but it doesn't mean they can't transfer load to one another.

I would imagine the insert is indeed welded to the exhaust pipe but the rest of the pylon is somehow removable, although this is not clear from the available pictures.

I don´t even think they have welded someting inside, but that the pipe itself acts as a support.

5.8.4 The last 150mm of any tailpipe must in its entirety :
a) Form a thin-walled unobstructed right circular cylinder with its axis +/- 5° to the car centre line when viewed from above the car and between 0° and 5° (tail up) to the reference plane when viewed from the side of the car.

If you look closely at the picture you posted, you can see two weld seems on the left side in the picture, the rear of the mount. As Scarbs said, the support passes through a teardrop-shaped passage in the exhaust pipe, and is mounted to the top of the crash structure. I also imagine that the end of the exhaust pipe is only stuckinto the sleeve (in the right of the picture, appears to be a material that can compensate for heat expansion), and can be relatively easily removed when necessary. Nice solution, I just don't believe that there is an advantage due to weight. It will have an advantage when it improves the control of the exhaust gases, since this would help remove rotation in the stream.