Alonso's Crash

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lkocev
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Joined: 25 Jan 2009, 08:34

Re: Alonso's Crash

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gilgen wrote:nickel. what i am trying to say that in F1, there is a protocol that has to be followed, and even this was tightened up after jules's accident. personally, i find nothing unusual in alonso's treatment at the track.
I'm not trying to get into some sort of pissing match with anyone here, but I highly doubt that administration of sedatives is part of standard protocol. I quite agree with Nickel about back boards and neck collars, those typically are precautionary measures that are taken, because outside of strapping them onto the patient, they don't really present much in the way of risk, relative to excellent precautionary benefit offered by such devices. Sedatives from my understanding and my own experience, are typically avoided as much as possible.

There are of course less potent sedatives that can be used, that might not cause a patient to outright fall to sleep, and according to a Wikipedia article, are sometimes used for invasive procedures like MRI. I don't know if invasive is the correct word to describe MRI, since its not surgery, but they are nasty. I'm sure Nickel can chime in here, its dark, claustrophobic, it takes like 20 minutes, and its noisy as all ---, in fact I described it to the technician as sounding like a 'god damned warzone' which he said was a good description. I'm not sure potent sedatives are necessary for that though, surely the mild sedating effect that morphine has would be enough in itself to make it less uncomfortable to get an MRI. But I will say that MRI's are really horrible, its not pleasant being inside them for that long period of time, and its endless noise, I'd be quite happy not to ever have an MRI again.

I personally can't see a reason for medical staff to sedate a patient to the point to unconsciousness, unless from a very serious accident where a patient might be at further risk from not being sedated. I'm not sure that Alonso's accident was in that category. I'm not saying the accident wasn't serious in its own right, or that there was no concussion, but I was always under the impression that concussion is typically reason enough to avoid sedatives.

George-Jung
George-Jung
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Joined: 29 Apr 2014, 15:39

Re: Alonso's Crash

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MRI's are not that bad.. I did it myself.. You get headphones with music.
So just close your eyes, listen to the music and enjoy the ride.. :)

Ps.
They only injected some contrast fluids in me, no sedatives..

Nickel
Nickel
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Joined: 02 Jun 2011, 18:10
Location: London Mountain, BC

Re: Alonso's Crash

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George-Jung wrote:MRI's are not that bad.. I did it myself.. You get headphones with music.
So just close your eyes, listen to the music and enjoy the ride.. :)

Ps.
They only injected some contrast fluids in me, no sedatives..
Haha, YOU got headphones and music. Mine took an hour. It was very uncomfortable, but mainly due to my injuries. I needed extensive scans of my skull, as my jaw was broken in three places along with a small inconsequential bone in my neck. To cap it off, I had advanced pneumonia. I could've really used a sedative, but not only was it not protocol, it wasn't even discussed
as an option. Before anyone assumes they just neglected to give me one, my care was absolutely phenomenal (probably because they were pretty worried for a while).

I also only received contrast fluid and pain killers.

Sevach
Sevach
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Joined: 07 Jun 2012, 17:00

Re: Alonso's Crash

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langwadt wrote: Peter Windsor says he's 100% sure Alonso was unconscious before he hit the wall
Ok, so now we've stablished that Alonso was fully awaken and had 100% mental capacity.

Writinglife
Writinglife
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Joined: 29 Nov 2012, 11:09

Re: Alonso's Crash

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From what I understand, medication to induce sleep following a concussion depends greatly on the level of concussion sustained. Its quite possible that Alonso was medicated following the crash to induce restfulness and sleep to speed up healing. A heavy concussion, possibly accompanied by intracranial bleeding would require the opposite methodology. In this case you don't want them sleeping. In Nickel's case, it may well have been the worry that there was bleeding on the brain that stopped them putting him to sleep.

I feel that we'll never get the truth of this issue, and it'll just go around in circles in the same way as Senna's accident (did the steering break first) etc.

aral
aral
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Joined: 03 Apr 2010, 22:49

Re: Alonso's Crash

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George-Jung wrote:MRI's are not that bad.. I did it myself.. You get headphones with music.
So just close your eyes, listen to the music and enjoy the ride.. :)

Ps.
They only injected some contrast fluids in me, no sedatives..
Had you just had a high g-force crash?

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iotar__
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Joined: 28 Sep 2012, 12:31

Re: Alonso's Crash

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langwadt wrote:this just keeps getting weirder, Peter Windsor says he's 100% sure Alonso was unconscious before he hit the wall but won't go into why he is so sure...https://youtu.be/gQbaovX0ziQ?t=4m39s
I know but I won't tell. Wasn't Alonso down-shifting and steering?

Miguel
Miguel
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Joined: 17 Apr 2008, 11:36
Location: San Sebastian (Spain)

Re: Alonso's Crash

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iotar__ wrote:
langwadt wrote:this just keeps getting weirder, Peter Windsor says he's 100% sure Alonso was unconscious before he hit the wall but won't go into why he is so sure...https://youtu.be/gQbaovX0ziQ?t=4m39s
I know but I won't tell. Wasn't Alonso down-shifting and steering?
[sarcasm]
That's what McLaren wants you to believe...
[\sarcasm]
I am not amazed by F1 cars in Monaco. I want to see them driving in the A8 highway: Variable radius corners, negative banking, and extreme narrowings that Tilke has never dreamed off. Oh, yes, and "beautiful" weather tops it all.

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George-Jung
George-Jung
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Joined: 29 Apr 2014, 15:39

Re: Alonso's Crash

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gilgen wrote:
George-Jung wrote:MRI's are not that bad.. I did it myself.. You get headphones with music.
So just close your eyes, listen to the music and enjoy the ride.. :)

Ps.
They only injected some contrast fluids in me, no sedatives..
Had you just had a high g-force crash?
Not that I am aware of, but maybe I just forgot.. :wink:
Just to be sure, my post mentioning about my experience with the MRI was in no way intended to step on someones toes..

Lets get back on topic.

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strad
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Joined: 02 Jan 2010, 01:57

Re: Alonso's Crash

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MRI's are not that bad
Unless you are claustrophobic. :wink:
To achieve anything, you must be prepared to dabble on the boundary of disaster.”
Sir Stirling Moss

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Tim.Wright
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Joined: 13 Feb 2009, 06:29

Re: Alonso's Crash

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iotar__ wrote:
langwadt wrote:this just keeps getting weirder, Peter Windsor says he's 100% sure Alonso was unconscious before he hit the wall but won't go into why he is so sure...https://youtu.be/gQbaovX0ziQ?t=4m39s
I know but I won't tell. Wasn't Alonso down-shifting and steering?
And braking

Image
Not the engineer at Force India

dr_cooke
dr_cooke
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Joined: 12 Mar 2008, 14:43

Re: Alonso's Crash

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Tim.Wright wrote:
iotar__ wrote:
langwadt wrote:this just keeps getting weirder, Peter Windsor says he's 100% sure Alonso was unconscious before he hit the wall but won't go into why he is so sure...https://youtu.be/gQbaovX0ziQ?t=4m39s
I know but I won't tell. Wasn't Alonso down-shifting and steering?
And braking

https://wellnessracing.files.wordpress. ... -crash.jpg
Sorry, maybe the answer is in any of the previous 50+ pages, but I don't remember having seen any statement about him steering. AFAIR, McLaren said he was braking and downshifting, but did not mention steering, which seemed weird, as steering is obviously sensored.

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Tim.Wright
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Joined: 13 Feb 2009, 06:29

Re: Alonso's Crash

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The curved trajectory of the skid mark shows that something was steering the car into the wall...
Not the engineer at Force India

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WaikeCU
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Joined: 14 May 2014, 00:03

Re: Alonso's Crash

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Anyone have the weather reports of that very specific moment of the day at the circuit? A sudden gust of wind could be possible I think. A lot of people say it's impossible a gust of wind can move an F1 car. Yesterday it was stormy weather here in Belgium. As I drove back home on the highway in my BMW 1 series at 130-140 kph, I felt the car was nervous through the wind. That was at windspeed of 5-6 Bft, which is roughly 40-50 kph windspeed. Mind you that is on the highway in mostly straight line direction, with a car that barely has any aerodynamic influences. A BMW 1 Series weighs 1385Kg.

Now take Alonso's case in equation. He has a ~700Kg F1 car, which is highly influenced by its aerodynamic parts and driving ~150kph in a bend. Now how does a gust of wind not influence the behaviour of the car? I think the possibility is very real.

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FrukostScones
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Location: European Union

Re: Alonso's Crash

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Tim.Wright wrote:The curved trajectory of the skid mark shows that something was steering the car into the wall...
the car steered only to the right and ALO made no attempt to steer left (latest AMUS: no input to steer left was picked up by torque sensors in the steering that even with locked steering should have picked it up)), so two option remain on purpose or unconscious/ unable to act before crash...

I believe Windsor (he knows app. reasons) and maybe also BBC guy...

definitely not by caused by wind this drama.
Finishing races is important, but racing is more important.