Alonso screwing Hamilton in qualifying

FLC · Post 05 Aug 2007, 00:20

With all the explanation Ron is giving lately, I'm sure he could've explained this as well:

But, Hamilton added, "We're not disagreeing. I just told you my side, he's telling you his side. I'm not disagreeing with him. That's his opinion."

So what is the definition of Disagree?

checkered · Post 05 Aug 2007, 00:35

It gets worse

for McLaren: McLaren stripped of potential points (link) ... we'll still have to wait for the stewards' rationale for doing this. At first glance a tiff between team mates would hardly seem to justify this, so I suppose there's more.

Edit: And predictably, here's the appeal (link) .

USAF1FAN · Post 05 Aug 2007, 01:00

I'm not surprised that they put Alonso back, but I'm shocked that McLaren will earn no points.

Sawtooth-spike · Post 05 Aug 2007, 01:02

i miss one qulifing this year and this happens!, man i need to watch the sky plus tomorrow so i can see what happend. sounds like a mess!

waynes · Post 05 Aug 2007, 01:03

USAF1FAN wrote:I'm not surprised that they put Alonso back, but I'm shocked that McLaren will earn no points.

why are you shocked?

its all to please Ferrari after the spineless muppets didnt do anything last week

the FIA have got lucky with whats happened today and used it to their full advantage

Principessa · Post 05 Aug 2007, 01:08

Rubbish! McLaren is being endorsed!! The espionage saga has NOTHING to do with what happened today! NOTHING! And to be honest, I do believe McLaren in that matter. Not because I don't like Ferrari but because they sound genuine. The teams are now throwing mud at each other and it's not good for the teams, the fans and especially not for the sport!

checkered · Post 05 Aug 2007, 01:10

I'm wondering

what Hamilton's reaction to all this might be? It is now fairly well documented by the FIA that once Hamilton had been issued his orders for the final pitstop, the pit wall proceeded to advice Alonso to behave in a way that contradicted Hamilton's instructions - and perceivably his interest, even without the additional 10 secs Alonso spent minding his business before letting Hamilton to pit.

USAF1FAN · Post 05 Aug 2007, 01:13

waynes wrote: why are you shocked?

its all to please Ferrari after the spineless muppets didnt do anything last week

the FIA have got lucky with whats happened today and used it to their full advantage

I agree, but I am shocked because, unless I misunderstand what has happened, this wasn't really a "team" conspiracy, it was Alonso maybe with some assistance.

Principessa · Post 05 Aug 2007, 01:17

Ron Dennis said that it had to do with Hamilton not listening to previous team orders as well....
I think it's a mess, but I still don't think it's fair! As a driver you have to listen to what they say in your headset. If they say wait, than you wait....

waynes · Post 05 Aug 2007, 01:21

any chance of getting hold of the radio transcript??????

FLC · Post 05 Aug 2007, 01:24

Alonso was asked why he waited for some 10 seconds before leaving the pits after being given the signal to leave. His response was that he was enquiring as to whether the correct set of tyres had been fitted to his car. When asked why this conversation did not take place during the 20 second period when his car sat stationary all work on it having been completed, it was stated that it was not possible to communicate by radio because of the countdown being given to him.

So I get it that they couldn't blame his engineer for not letting him go... Now he was wondering if the right set of tires was fitted? And they could not communicate? Who exactly was counting? Alonso or the team? What a pile of s**t from Mclaren!!!
RD also said that the lollipop man was out of sequence because he was looking at Hamilton's car. So did they or did they not count on the radio? How hard could it be to raise the stick when they reach 0? Who else is he going to blame? Alonso's engineer, Hamilton, the lollipop man. ehhhh.

That 151c is gonna hunt you down Mr. RD, like it or not

checkered · Post 05 Aug 2007, 01:27

waynes wrote:why are you shocked?
its all to please Ferrari after the spineless muppets didnt do anything last week
the FIA have got lucky with whats happened today and used it to their full advantage

USAF1FAN wrote:I agree, but I am shocked because, unless I misunderstand what has happened, this wasn't really a "team" conspiracy, it was Alonso maybe with some assistance.

I'll have to disagree ... the race stewards (not the World Motor Sport Council, which decided on "Stepneygate") ruled on the case on its own merits. The only involvement of Ferrari in this is that Alonso went out just as Raikkonen started his hot lap, perhaps denying him 3rd (at the time) in the process. And the FIA stewards' decision (see the link above) doesn't mention Ferrari once. The FIA is far from a unified entity with a mind of its own.

And as far as whom all this is about: the stewards' meeting notes actually imply that it actually was a team related decision. Quote:

The explanation given by Alonso as to why at the expiration of the 20 second period he remained in his pit stop position for a further 10 seconds is not accepted. ...

The explanation given by the team as to why they kept Alonso stationary for 20 seconds after completion of his tyre change and therefore delayed Hamilton's own pit stop is not accepted.

Furthermore, Alonso and the team's representatives were clearly backing each other's statements up for the media (before the FIA stewards' decision), defending each other's points. It was Hamilton, who questioned the sequence of events and wished for an explanation and quite rightly so, which becomes abundantly clear from reading the decision.

In a sense Lewis was lucky in that Alonso decided that the 20 secs wait imposed by the team wasn't enough and drew the authorities' attention by remaining stationary after the lollipop was raised.

Post 05 Aug 2007, 01:31

This is just outrageous. The FIA is treating their teams like they are babies while in fact they are businesses who seek for success instead of problems.

First of all, I initially believed Alonso was doing a trick on Hamilton by waiting 7 more seconds after his lollipop went up. However, heaving read what the stewards heard from Alonso, Dennis and the telemetry, it is clear that the initial fault is down to Hamilton for not obeying the team. He clearly rejected to let pass Alonso in order to get him an extra lap.

This refusal led to the McLaren team mixing up their calculations in order to have their drivers run just before the end of the session.

McLaren stated it held up Alonso and he waited as expected. This is fact can be true since they appear to do that all the time in order to set the best possible time as late as possible in the session, for both cars.
I totally disagree with the stewards that they do not find this believable.

Then, Alonso is also penalised with 5 grid places backwards. And in the light of the previous McLaren statement, I also totally disagree with the stewards for Alonso's penalty.

After all, to me it looks like a mess at McLaren as their plan did not get executed well. All sorts of things went wrong, and such a thing simply can happen. Imposing a penalty for human errors is just outrageous and a true shame for Formula One as a sport.

Somehow that again brings up Flavio saying that we should focus on the sport.

zender05 · Post 05 Aug 2007, 01:33

I think the blotting of WC points is quite harsh. However, I personally think that the Sauber's (though I may be proved wrong) won't be able to hold back the Ferrari's...primarily Heidfeld vs. Raikkonen. So I think the fight between Hamilton and Raikkonen should be quite interesting. I'm sure eventually (barring craziness) that it'll be something like this:

1. LH
2. KR
3. FA
4. FM (mayyyybbeee)

Tom · Post 05 Aug 2007, 01:42

Seems odd that there are so many folk on-line (watchin this thread) and no ones on IRC, come on guys, thats what its there for, perfect oppertunity to use it.