Can aero be designed "offensively"

Here are our CFD links and discussions about aerodynamics, suspension, driver safety and tyres. Please stick to F1 on this forum.
SlowSteve
SlowSteve
1
Joined: 04 Aug 2014, 16:20

Can aero be designed "offensively"

Post

I was wondering if it would be possible/practical for the teams to design Aero in a way that specifically made passing harder.

Could they, for example, sacrifice a percentage of downforce for a significant increase in turbulance in their wake in order to disrupt following teams D/F levels?

Thanks

Steve

mattia.bobbo
mattia.bobbo
2
Joined: 06 Feb 2015, 09:36

Re: Can aero be designed "offensively"

Post

Every race goal is to go faster, not slower. No reason in trying to avoid being passed by going slower. This is just one of the million reasons that the idea of creating disturbing turbulence is stupid. Others are:
-increase of fuel consumption
-more drag=less speed
-95% of all overtakes are made on straights: you can produce all kind of turbolence you want but I'll always have an advantage in top speed at the end of the straight

ojlopez
ojlopez
5
Joined: 24 Oct 2014, 22:33
Location: Guatemala

Re: Can aero be designed "offensively"

Post

It makes sense to me, because it would not matter if you were slower in the straight If the other car can't get close enough for passing due to extreme buffeting.

User avatar
Tim.Wright
330
Joined: 13 Feb 2009, 06:29

Re: Can aero be designed "offensively"

Post

Offensive aero you say?
Image

Bear in mind, and tricks you try to play by introducing turbulence are likely to make slip-streaming you even easier.
Not the engineer at Force India

wesley123
wesley123
204
Joined: 23 Feb 2008, 17:55

Re: Can aero be designed "offensively"

Post

This is an idea that comes up from time to time, I really don't know why.

Why would you willingly reduce your own downforce, increase your own drag(and thus increase fuel consumption, requiring you to save fuel and thus reduce engine performance) just to create a bit more wake? The wake of an F1 car is large enough already, you ruining your own aero to spoil it for the guy behind wont add much to the wake.

Plus, there is this thing called "qualifying" where cars try to lap as fast as possible for their grid position in the race, which influences their finishing position for the race.

Also, as this wake reduces the downforce of the car behind, so does it's drag, making slipstreaming easier.
"Bite my shiny metal ass" - Bender

User avatar
turbof1
Moderator
Joined: 19 Jul 2012, 21:36
Location: MountDoom CFD Matrix

Re: Can aero be designed "offensively"

Post

There is no such thing as designing your aero package on purpose to aero-wise sabotage the car behind you. Such a "philosophy" would only be a compromise on performance.

Teams probably will be happy if any performance enhancement comes along with something that disturbs the airflow of the chasing car, but it certainly is not nor ever will be a goal on its own.
#AeroFrodo

J.A.W.
J.A.W.
109
Joined: 01 Sep 2014, 05:10
Location: Altair IV.

Re: Can aero be designed "offensively"

Post

An exception might be in dirty weather/wet conditions, when a directed vortex of detritus/spray
- could perhaps be designed - to be flung straight into to the face of the following driver?
"Well, we knocked the bastard off!"

Ed Hilary on being 1st to top Mt Everest,
(& 1st to do a surface traverse across Antarctica,
in good Kiwi style - riding a Massey Ferguson farm
tractor - with a few extemporised mod's to hack the task).

wesley123
wesley123
204
Joined: 23 Feb 2008, 17:55

Re: Can aero be designed "offensively"

Post

Why would they?
"Bite my shiny metal ass" - Bender

J.A.W.
J.A.W.
109
Joined: 01 Sep 2014, 05:10
Location: Altair IV.

Re: Can aero be designed "offensively"

Post

To be - 'in your face'- ?

Or if you are a 'Dick Dastardly/Bender' type of character - perhaps?
"Well, we knocked the bastard off!"

Ed Hilary on being 1st to top Mt Everest,
(& 1st to do a surface traverse across Antarctica,
in good Kiwi style - riding a Massey Ferguson farm
tractor - with a few extemporised mod's to hack the task).

User avatar
strad
117
Joined: 02 Jan 2010, 01:57

Re: Can aero be designed "offensively"

Post

They already work on disturbing the air for the following car.?.?.? :wtf: :?
To achieve anything, you must be prepared to dabble on the boundary of disaster.”
Sir Stirling Moss