Montoya 2nd at Indy

[Ciro Pabón]

Sorry, you guys. I've never wanted to start a topic on JPM, less you think I'm biased. This time I cannot restrain myself.

I watched yesterday a rerun of JPM coming second at Indianapolis. I'd say he's starting to put things together. I assume overtaking Jeff Gordon on Indy, on a car that used to be crappy (until last race, at least), is not an easy thing to do.

JPM overtaking Kevin Harvick for second place with 3 laps left. Jeff Gordon chases them.

I wonder if Indianapolis low banking (well, I think is the lowest banking of all ovals at 9 degrees. Does anybody know for sure?) had something to do.

Fans booed him on driver's presentation: he's "too aggressive" and he's "making enemies on the track". Sweet. "...as if Dale Earnhardt never existed. Please." I'm already wating for the Glen...

Anyway, congratulations to all JPM's fans in the forum, specially to colombian ones...

[Ray]

They booed him cause he's not an American driver from the US, he's already whooped up on them boys once this year, and they are plain ignorant NASCAR fans that should shut up. They give guys like me who are unashamed JPM fans a mean case of the ugly.

Even my Father likes him, and that's saying a whole hell of alot.

[Belatti]

Just yesterdeay I was reading an article in "One" Argentinian magazine (maybe Ciro you know it!) about JPM.
He said he was happy with his new life and doesn´t miss F1, and I completely understand him (althoug I´m an inconditional F1 fan).

I´m glad he is doing well, I like him (I like aggresive drivers, Gilles Villeneuve rules!!!! )
I think thats the way you give public spectacular races!

[RacingManiac]

Ciro is correct on Indy being the least banked oval...

Commentator are talking about he is taking more of an Indy car line around the track than Stockcar, and he is making it work....not being too sure what the differences are I can't agree or disagree, but he is taking full advantage of Ganassi's car being more dialed in now for oval races.....


He is also leading Rookie of the year standing in NASCAR I believe, 17th overall...

[flynfrog]

Ciro is correct on Indy being the least banked oval...

Commentator are talking about he is taking more of an Indy car line around the track than Stockcar, and he is making it work....not being too sure what the differences are I can't agree or disagree, but he is taking full advantage of Ganassi's car being more dialed in now for oval races.....


He is also leading Rookie of the year standing in NASCAR I believe, 17th overall...

the indy cars tend to hug the bottom of the track since they have wings they dont have to slow down as much to do so thus the inside is faster. The cup cars on the other hand have to slow down much more to take tech same line so most of them will run the high line more speed and more distance but ussaly the fast way for them

[RacingManiac]

makes sense actually, thanks for that!

[countersteer]

For the life of me, I'll never understand why the NASCAR boys have to have a huge steering wheel... they sit on top of it practically... and the steering ratio appears to be 15 turns, lock to lock. I can understand it, in the past, but they do have power steering now.

I wonder what Montoya could do if they laid the seat back, gave him a batwing steering wheel and a much quicker steering ratio. I think that's how Australian V-8 Super cars are set up.

It cracks me up watching these guys try to catch a slide... looks like they're driving a bus!!!

[Ray]

For the life of me, I'll never understand why the NASCAR boys have to have a huge steering wheel... they sit on top of it practically... and the steering ratio appears to be 15 turns, lock to lock. I can understand it, in the past, but they do have power steering now.

I wonder what Montoya could do if they laid the seat back, gave him a batwing steering wheel and a much quicker steering ratio. I think that's how Australian V-8 Super cars are set up.

It cracks me up watching these guys try to catch a slide... looks like they're driving a bus!!!

That's because they aren"t the same kind of car. Duh. Plus F1 cars have a smaller cockpit and less room for a steering wheel. Not all cars are built the same, nor are they driven the same.

[Tom]

The NASCAR steering wheels are big bacause it provides more leverage so less effort is needed to turn it. I suppose it requires one hell of an effort to turn a tonne of NASCAR on their big sticky tyres around a banked oval.
Sitting on top of the wheel is not the best approach (nor is the Farina straight arms method) but pressumably its for better leverage and perhaps goes back to the multiple winner and NASCAR legend, Richard Petty, who used to sit very close to the wheel.*

Again the reason for the lock to lock ratio will be leverage because I'm pretty sure NASCARs use rack and Pinion, which means gears which are just rotary levers. Therefore the bigger the driven gear the less effort required to turn the driver gear, but of course this means the driven gear revolves slower than the driver gear and it will take more turns of the driver to rotate the driven gear a single revolution, i.e. lock to lock.


*Of course the recommended position is bent arms and legs (even when the pedals are to the floor) with your arse wedged as far into the seat as possible and as much of your body in contact with the seat as possible.

[countersteer]

Guys... they use a traditional recirculating ball steering box with power assist. Yes... they have power steering. Richard Petty didn't have power steering, hence the driving position. Ned Jarret once took out a "modern" car on the track when he was a commentator and announced he'd "still be driving" if he had had power steering.

The steering effort on a Champ Car and IRL car is higher as neither has power steering and generates considerable downforce. (Makes you respect the "little folks" like Damatta and Danica a bit more)

Correct me if I'm wrong but the Australian V-8 Supercars use the quick steering/small wheel combo I've described.

Montoya is bringing a completely different background to these cars. He may be in a position to raise the game in this area. What if he set it up and drove it like a (heavy, worn out tires) IRL car? I remember one of the commentators showing a telemetry trace of Montoya in a Champ Car when he went lock to lock during a moment and never lifted. This kind of car control is not possible if your hands are busy slapping around at a steering wheel that goes from your chin to your navel.

[Ray]

Here we go! Another one of those stupid ass threads about the inferior type of cars NASCAR uses compared to every other racing car. I'd bet 90% of you have never been closer than 100 miles to one of these cars and somehow everybody is a damn expert.

[countersteer]

Ray... Apologies if I offended. I'm Alabama born and raised. Been to Talladega more than once. I've driven one of these cars at Nashville Superspeedway at one of the "drive" programs and gained a new respect for the "major attachments" needed to drive these monsters on the high banks. (Curiously enough, the car I drove (an old Bobby Allison chassis from his time as a team owner) was set up for left foot braking.) No... they didn't let us loose but at least I got a little taste.

My intent was not to slam NASCAR. Stock cars have evolved the way they have for a variety of reasons. Most, if not all, of the drivers and crew chiefs came up through the feeder series (dirt and asphalt) where the cars didn't have power steering. You stick with what you know and not add unnecessary variables.

Montoya is still learning the cars so you wouldn't want to change things now and add the variable. But... what about later? What if, having learned enough to give valuable feedback, they let him set it up the way it would have evolved given his background? Quick steering, small wheel... Heck, Earnhardt always had his seat low and reclined. Maybe he was onto something....

[flynfrog]

Ray... Apologies if I offended. I'm Alabama born and raised. Been to Talladega more than once. I've driven one of these cars at Nashville Superspeedway at one of the "drive" programs and gained a new respect for the "major attachments" needed to drive these monsters on the high banks. (Curiously enough, the car I drove (an old Bobby Allison chassis from his time as a team owner) was set up for left foot braking.) No... they didn't let us loose but at least I got a little taste.

My intent was not to slam NASCAR. Stock cars have evolved the way they have for a variety of reasons. Most, if not all, of the drivers and crew chiefs came up through the feeder series (dirt and asphalt) where the cars didn't have power steering. You stick with what you know and not add unnecessary variables.

Montoya is still learning the cars so you wouldn't want to change things now and add the variable. But... what about later? What if, having learned enough to give valuable feedback, they let him set it up the way it would have evolved given his background? Quick steering, small wheel... Heck, Earnhardt always had his seat low and reclined. Maybe he was onto something....

the wheel is tha big so you can turn the car the seat is there because that is where the driver feels most comfortable the wheels are slow because the corners are big they dont need super fast wheels like an f1 car because the radius of the turn i much bigger needing only a few degrees of steering out of the big wheel

[DaveKillens]

At the recent Busch NASCAR race at Montreal Circuit Gilles Villeneuve, there was a respectable number of imported road race specialists. Some of them ran with smaller wheels, and adjusted the steering ratio to optimize for this road race circuit. With power steering, you no longer need a huge steering wheel. You can alter the ergonomics for the driver's personal preferences.

[flynfrog]

At the recent Busch NASCAR race at Montreal Circuit Gilles Villeneuve, there was a respectable number of imported road race specialists. Some of them ran with smaller wheels, and adjusted the steering ratio to optimize for this road race circuit. With power steering, you no longer need a huge steering wheel. You can alter the ergonomics for the driver's personal preferences.

but watch the oval races the big wheel is for comfort the driver can sorta rest his arm. The main argument here was the JPM had no say in his wheel size and seat position I was trying to explain that is simply not true