2015 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir

[dans79]

This is the quote from Wolff himself "It's set-up issues," said Wolff. "We knew the changes we made on the car were compromising a little bit brake temperatures, so we knew what we were doing.

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/set-u ... ke-issues/

only part of it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66gp3iKEzN8

[PeterSW]

I thought some data might be useful for the discussion.

[Richard]

http://i.imgur.com/CxAl50W.png
I thought some data might be useful for the discussion.

Thank you. The last few pages have too many fanboy posts disputing various versions of reality.

[Andres125sx]

Lets be honest about it, Ferarri had the luxury of running two separate strategies because they had nothing to lose because everyone expects a Merc 1-2. So they lined it up as a 2 against one situation, if Merc defended against one (Vettel as it happens) then the other would gain (ie Kimi). It's just the same as Alonso v Vettel/Webber in Abu Dhabi 2010.

Nail it!

[windwaves]

Have you ever seen any driver going too long on a braking without locking up his tires?

I did. If you sense you are going to have a lock up, it's better to decrease the pressure on the pedal and avoid lock up otherwise you will just damage your tyre without any benefit. Longer braking without lock up -> longer braking with lock up.

He had brake issues, it´s obvious

No one is denying Merc' brake problems. Anyway, RAI had good enough pace to overtake ROS. It was just matter of time.

Yes, Windwaves was and I was replying to him

man, of course the team will defend their drivers. Of course it was yet another crucial mistake at a crucial time.

Anycase your argument is a beautiful armchair argument, but when you´re on track it´s not a matter of feeling you´re going to lock up the brakes, but feeling you hit the brakes too late and you´re going long. Then your instinctively apply a bit more pressure on the brakes, and no, this is not useless, locking up the brakes you slow down faster... ruining your tires obviously, but when you know you´re going too long you´re not thinking about your tires but about avoiding the wall/gravel

Profesional drivers obviously master this and usually avoid too long lock ups, but even so when you go too long a little lock up is common because you need all the braking force you can get

Rosberg didn´t lock up not even slightly, moreover he didn´t even try to take the corner, he went straight out. That´s not usual, I´d bet an arm he had a braking problem. And I´m critizining Rosberg daily, IMHO he does not deserve such a good car, but here I´m completely sure he didn´t make a mistake, it was a brake problem

The chances for beating Lewis this year are little to none, but why not next year? Alonso is not the person who should regret the decison. In my opinion, Ferrari as a family/franchise should be regreting why they didn't get rid of old office earlier. Anything between Todt and Arrivabene eras is black spot in history of Ferrari. Alonso is good and fast driver but political cancer.

Political cancer?

I wonder how many top drivers driving such a slow car as he did last season, and the previous one, and previous, and previous... would have been as politically correct as he´s been the five seasons he was driving for them. He never blamed the team for being unable to fight on equal conditions with fastest car, RBR or Mercedes, he was always positive about every car and season

If you disagree, please provide some quote from Alonso to support your statement



And yes maybe next season they will fight for the championship.... or maybe they´ll continue the same. After 5 seasons buying Ferrari´s promises it was enough

McLaren-Honda looked like a more promising project, right now it doesn´t look like a correct choice, but we will see at the end of the season what team has more chances for next season, I can´t rely on Ferrari too much, they´ve been winning some races most seasons, but never enough to fight for the championship. This season looks like more of the same

sorry man, I keep forgetting that while I seat in my armchair your are racing in the seat of a F1 car ahhahahahahahahah

Anyhow, your comments regarding the braking do not even deserve a response.

As to Alonso, referring to him as "polical cancer" can only come from a total moron.

[evered7]

This is the quote from Wolff himself "It's set-up issues," said Wolff. "We knew the changes we made on the car were compromising a little bit brake temperatures, so we knew what we were doing.

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/set-u ... ke-issues/

only part of it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66gp3iKEzN8

I posted the whole link to the article as well. The video doesn't talk about setup changes. Might have told it in a different interview.

The brake handicap was caused by their own setup issues and nothing else. If Ferrari were down on fuel and couldn't attack, it would be attributed to their engines being thirsty and not an efficient one. I don't see why this should be any different.

[Andres125sx]

Ferrari was 'artificially' close to Mercedes in Bahrain - Sebastian Vettel

Some members of this forum are going to absolutely hate this!

He says they were probably managing the tires a bit more in the second stint. But according to Merc fans here, they had absolutely no reason to worry about tire wear. So they lapped slower than necessary and just gifted second place to Kimi because they were tired of 1-2?

I don´t know and don´t care about what Merc fans say, but when you´re so dominant destroying your tires is the worst thing you can do, so it´s perfectly normal they were conserving his tires as much as posible

What´s the reason to push hard when you´re 1-2? None

Then they had some brake problems, and that and only that allowed Ferrari to finish second with Kimi, but that´s not something to be expected from Mercedes wall, they did what any other team would have done in their situation, specially when there´re some concerns about your rival managing the tires better than your car

They didn´t gift anything, they simply had an unexpected brake problem

[Andres125sx]

Ferrari are on the second ICE but there is no mention that they have a problem with the first one. They can readily use it at another circuit where the demands on the ICE is less.

Good point

[giantfan10]

This is the quote from Wolff himself "It's set-up issues," said Wolff. "We knew the changes we made on the car were compromising a little bit brake temperatures, so we knew what we were doing.

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/set-u ... ke-issues/

only part of it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66gp3iKEzN8

I posted the whole link to the article as well. The video doesn't talk about setup changes. Might have told it in a different interview.

The brake handicap was caused by their own setup issues and nothing else. If Ferrari were down on fuel and couldn't attack, it would be attributed to their engines being thirsty and not an efficient one. I don't see why this should be any different.

no wolf is lying to create the illusion that the races are close... mercedes actually had 2 seconds of pace they were hiding to shut the fans up about boring races... lol i kid : )
you may as well give it up the facts you posted contradicts too much of what the merc fans were saying for the entire weekend so i doubt u will get an admission that you are right.
look mercedes won the race so you cant call their setup change and resulting brake issue a failure in strategy... what it shows me though is that mercedes are being challenged more than some are willing to admit.
a team cruising at the front that is sandbagging and hiding pace has no need to make changes to their car to extend tire life knowing that it compromises their brakes... makes no sense

[windwaves]

Ferrari was 'artificially' close to Mercedes in Bahrain - Sebastian Vettel

Some members of this forum are going to absolutely hate this!

He says they were probably managing the tires a bit more in the second stint. But according to Merc fans here, they had absolutely no reason to worry about tire wear. So they lapped slower than necessary and just gifted second place to Kimi because they were tired of 1-2?

I don´t know and don´t care about what Merc fans say, but when you´re so dominant destroying your tires is the worst thing you can do, so it´s perfectly normal they were conserving his tires as much as posible

What´s the reason to push hard when you´re 1-2? None

Then they had some brake problems, and that and only that allowed Ferrari to finish second with Kimi, but that´s not something to be expected from Mercedes wall, they did what any other team would have done in their situation, specially when there´re some concerns about your rival managing the tires better than your car

They didn´t gift anything, they simply had an unexpected brake problem

Merc had no reason to push hard while 1-2, indeed, why would they ? Merc ended 1-3.

Your F1 seat opinion that Kimi was able to overtake ROS only because of ROS's brake problem is what it is: your opionion. You have no clue whatsoever what would have happened had ROS not messed up that corner.

[giantfan10]

Ferrari are on the second ICE but there is no mention that they have a problem with the first one. They can readily use it at another circuit where the demands on the ICE is less.

Good point

BUT are they allowed to then upgrade the components around the ice the next time they use it?
is the turbo considered a part of the ICE or not?
so can you lets say use and old ICE with an upgraded turbo, ERS and MGU-K?
lets say ferrari upgrades their intake and MGU-k... are they then allowed to re install that ICE with those updated componenets?...

[Andres125sx]

sorry man, I keep forgetting that while I seat in my armchair your are racing in the seat of a F1 car ahhahahahahahahah

No, but looks like I know much better than you what do you feel when you´re racing and hit the brakes too late. You obviously try to take care of the tires as you said, but that´s secondary, you´re mainly focused on taking the corner instead of going out of track/hitting a wall

That or most F1 drivers are just idiots, because many of them lock up the brakes when going too long, including Hamilton

Anyhow, your comments regarding the braking do not even deserve a response.

That´s the problem when you don´t have any argument

As to Alonso, referring to him as "polical cancer" can only come from a total moron.

C´mon man, you don´t need to insult anyone because you disagree, and as you see I also disagree with him, I support Alonso, but you don´t need to be so rude.

Use arguments, not insults

[Andres125sx]

Ferrari are on the second ICE but there is no mention that they have a problem with the first one. They can readily use it at another circuit where the demands on the ICE is less.

Good point

BUT are they allowed to then upgrade the components around the ice the next time they use it?
is the turbo considered a part of the ICE or not?
so can you lets say use and old ICE with an upgraded turbo, ERS and MGU-K?
lets say ferrari upgrades their intake and MGU-k... are they then allowed to re install that ICE with those updated componenets?...

Good questions, but I´m afraid I don´t know the reply

[SectorOne]

Lets be honest about it, Ferarri had the luxury of running two separate strategies because they had nothing to lose because everyone expects a Merc 1-2. So they lined it up as a 2 against one situation, if Merc defended against one (Vettel as it happens) then the other would gain (ie Kimi). It's just the same as Alonso v Vettel/Webber in Abu Dhabi 2010.

One important lesson is that this shows Ferrari were putting two against one to pick off Rosberg. It shows their priority is to gang up on the second Merc car. If this continues then it will be daunting for Merc's second placed car knowing that Ferrari will try an early undercut to draw you into a dogfight, and the second Ferrari will be on a different strategy give you another dogfight later on. Meanwhile the leading Merc car knows they'll have clear run because Ferrari and the other Merc are caught up in dogfights.

I think you nailed it.

The problem as well for us fans is that those three continue to squabble over each other so in a sense Hamilton is gaining more then 7 points for every win he takes.
They are basically helping him win the title faster by tripping over each other.

Unless one of them will start to win races on a consistent basis it´s not gonna be the most exciting championship this year.

[windwaves]

sorry man, I keep forgetting that while I seat in my armchair your are racing in the seat of a F1 car ahhahahahahahahah

No, but looks like I know much better than you what do you feel when you´re racing and hit the brakes too late. You obviously try to take care of the tires as you said, but that´s secondary, you´re mainly focused on taking the corner instead of going out of track/hitting a wall

That or most F1 drivers are just idiots, because many of them lock up the brakes when going too long, including Hamilton

Anyhow, your comments regarding the braking do not even deserve a response.

That´s the problem when you don´t have any argument

As to Alonso, referring to him as "polical cancer" can only come from a total moron.

C´mon man, you don´t need to insult anyone because you disagree, and as you see I also disagree with him, I support Alonso, but you don´t need to be so rude.

Use arguments, not insults

that was my whole point, sorry you feel offended by my hideous language - but I feel that when someone calls any body "political cancer", that is an insult and I do not argue with those who insult. Indeed.