Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

[dren]

I highly doubt it is an axial compressor. You'd have to make an 180 degree bend with the charge air pipe. Remember the pictures of the Mercedes compressor last year? It is almost flush with the V, but right at the front of the ICE. This is probably similar.

Here is the W05 PU to jog everyone's memory:
http://www.omnicorse.it/img/articoli/ev ... rcedes.jpg

There are already some automotive axial turbines in the market...
In this example, the tubine is axial and the compressor is radial:

http://ae-plus.com/technology/honeywell ... r-response

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gz0qZpxXnLg

And the compressor is smaller like the honeywell dual-boost TC?
Dren might be right; the compressor might be radial and it's just smaller...

IIRC, the turbo is made by IHI, the same guys who are making the turbo for Mercedes. If Honda did incorporate Honeywell's idea into their engine without giving them any credit for it, it may lead to a patent infringement situation, especially considering how honeywell would be pushing all marketing avenues for the new turbo.

The dualboost also requires two intakes, something I find hard to package given what we see in the pictures.

[salva021291]

I highly doubt it is an axial compressor. You'd have to make an 180 degree bend with the charge air pipe. Remember the pictures of the Mercedes compressor last year? It is almost flush with the V, but right at the front of the ICE. This is probably similar.

Here is the W05 PU to jog everyone's memory:
http://www.omnicorse.it/img/articoli/ev ... rcedes.jpg

Sorry you wouldn't need a 180 bend for an axial and if you look the pics in my last post they show the air intake going into the V not to the front like Merc. Compressor is in the V.

and if the compressor was shot? I'll explain: in centrifugal compressor air enters axially and radially out, if the input was by the side of V and not to the pilot? could possibly be an explanation to the photo showing the air intake in the V

[Facts Only]

I highly doubt it is an axial compressor. You'd have to make an 180 degree bend with the charge air pipe. Remember the pictures of the Mercedes compressor last year? It is almost flush with the V, but right at the front of the ICE. This is probably similar.

Here is the W05 PU to jog everyone's memory:
http://www.omnicorse.it/img/articoli/ev ... rcedes.jpg

There are already some automotive axial turbines in the market...
In this example, the tubine is axial and the compressor is radial:

http://ae-plus.com/technology/honeywell ... r-response

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gz0qZpxXnLg

And the compressor is smaller like the honeywell dual-boost TC?
Dren might be right; the compressor might be radial and it's just smaller...

IIRC, the turbo is made by IHI, the same guys who are making the turbo for Mercedes. If Honda did incorporate Honeywell's idea into their engine without giving them any credit for it, it may lead to a patent infringement situation, especially considering how honeywell would be pushing all marketing avenues for the new turbo.

Mercedes design and manufacture their own turbo in Brixworth (some component parts are farmed out for manufacturer), ICSI (IHI) are merely a technical partner.

[Sasha]

mixed-flow compressor

smaller than a radial but still compress without multi-stages

[frosty125]

Considering how much of the front face of the ICE and the air intake with the oil tank below we can see here I really struggle to see where a compressor can be other than in the V.

Where as the air intake enters far forward of the engine block on the Merc we can see the air intake enter the v at about the first cylinder on the Honda.

[GoranF1]

It is an axial compressor in the V of the engine.
https://twitter.com/ScarbsF1/status/590237555616051201

[TankMarvin]

Hi,

First time post...

I haven't seen this mentioned previously so apologies if I've missed it, but is it legal to run the compressor and turbine slanted through the V of the engine ?
(i.e. not parallel to the ground/reference plane)


http://i.imgur.com/0Vh7WYe.jpg

If so, would this allow them to shorten the overall length of the ICS but run a larger diameter than would fit perpendicularly into the V and also lower the CoG ?

[wuzak]

Indeed, the compressor airbox seem to penetrate the V from the top and there is no space in front of the engine because the oil tank and the intercooler-inlet duct are placed there. So the compressor lies in the V or is at the back.
So if it's in the V, the Honda compressor looks like an axial flow supercharger?

The compressor intake may be facing the vee, but the compressor itself is outside. In the same manner as Ferrari and Renault's.

[trinidefender]

It is an axial compressor in the V of the engine.

https://twitter.com/ScarbsF1/status/590237555616051201

Forgive me for being HIGHLY skeptical about what scarbs is saying. All because of 1 simple reason. No single stage axial compressor that is commercially available can even get near the kinds of compression ratios needed for this application, especially not in the changing conditions presented in F1 of constantly running at different tracks at different barometric pressures, different temperatures etc. Until somebody can either A. show me a picture clearly showing that it is an axial compressor or B. show me a design that allows such high compression ratios in these conditions, I'll continue to not believe it.

In one of the pictures I think I see what looks like the diffuser and circular pipe around the turbocharger compressor, a characteristic of centrifugal compressors.

Question to those who are savvy with the regs. Would a double sided compressor be allowed by the rules. Technically it is still only one stage of compression but simply with 2 inlets to the turbocharger compressor. If this is allowed then it would be a way to drastically downsize the size of the compressor.

Edit: I can see the possibility of a mixed flow compressor. Don't know to much about it though.

[Sasha]

Mixed-Flow Compressor

Small like an axial-flow but compress like a radial-flow without being multi-stage.

[hbgmysite]

The kinetic and thermal energy recovery systems are both capable of harvesting 4 MJ of energy per lap. However, under the 2015 regulations, both systems can only deploy 2 MJ of energy per lap.
Jump up ^

[ringo]

This engine may turn out to be an evolutionary dead end...
It's unnecessarily compact. I don't know what the hell is going on in that V area. It already looks like the compressor size is compromised. I feel the compressor is either at the front of the engine or at the back though, but it's very hard to see.

The compressor housing may be black in colour and may be a radial design. I don't think it's an axial compressore. If it was then there will be no room for the MGUH. If you squint yours eye a bit, you can almost see the black housing behild that oil tank think at the front of the engine.

[ringo]

This engine may turn out to be an evolutionary dead end...
It's unnecessarily compact. I don't know what the hell is going on in that V area. It already looks like the compressor size is compromised. I feel the compressor is either at the front of the engine or at the back though, but it's very hard to see.

The compressor housing may be black in colour and may be a radial design. I don't think it's an axial compressore. If it was then there will be no room for the MGUH. If you squint yours eye a bit, you can almost see the black housing behild that oil tank think at the front of the engine.

[ringo]

Compressor is not axial. There would be no room for the MGUH.
I feel the compressor is very low and it's to the front of the engine.

What are the rules on the orientation of the turbine shaft again?

[FW17]

I don't think it's an axial compressore. If it was then there will be no room for the MGUH. If you squint yours eye a bit, you can almost see the black housing behild that oil tank think at the front of the engine.

I used to think that too but then Ferrari seems to have put in a MGU H and intercooler the V of the engine. The compressor axial or radial would still be shorter in length than a intercooler, so guess MGU H placement is possible within the V along with the Compressor