2015 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir

[henra]

Vettel explains his struggles in Bahrain GP. Seems reasonable and giving answer as to why he was not able to close in and pass Bottas.
http://formula1.ferrari.com/en/sebastia ... rfect-day/

Indeed. It was clearly visible that the gap to Valteri always drastically openend up when exiting the last corner prior to the long straight. Seb did seem to have traction problems and/or trouble carrying the Speed through the turns when closely following another car. Maybe the Ferrari is particularly prone to DF loss on the front axle when driving close behind another car. It was very noticeable and did appear worse than normal.
Quite balanced and calm view on his own race, btw.

Against Nico it was probably a bit of all:
- Merc has still significantly better single lap pace than Ferrari, whereas the single lap pace of the Ferrari isn't that much better than that of the Williams.
- Depleted ERS, possibly partly overheated tyres from an aggressive outlap
- Seb a bit caught asleep.

[raymondu999]

I noticed that whereas Seb was driving late apexes (apices?) in Malaysia while leading, and in the early stages of Bahrain before getting stuck behind Bottas. However as he was following Bottas, it looked from Bottas' rearward cam that Bottas was doing his late apex thing, whereas Vettel was doing a more classic arced approach.

[bonjon1979]

So I notice that the bahrain race time was 5 seconds quicker than the 2012 race winning time. From what I can gather from wikipedia there was no safety car in either race and the ambient temperatures don't seem to be that different despite one being a night race. Are these cars now quicker than their 2012 predecessors or am I missing something?

[Harsha]

So I notice that the bahrain race time was 5 seconds quicker than the 2012 race winning time. From what I can gather from wikipedia there was no safety car in either race and the ambient temperatures don't seem to be that different despite one being a night race. Are these cars now quicker than their 2012 predecessors or am I missing something?

Perhaps they are but 2012 is a 3 stopping race where as 2015 is a two.

[ChrisM40]

So I notice that the bahrain race time was 5 seconds quicker than the 2012 race winning time. From what I can gather from wikipedia there was no safety car in either race and the ambient temperatures don't seem to be that different despite one being a night race. Are these cars now quicker than their 2012 predecessors or am I missing something?

Perhaps they are but 2012 is a 3 stopping race where as 2015 is a two.

That only amounts to seconds though across the entire race. Going by Wiki data the Pole and fastest laps are very very close as well, so it seems like, at least here, the 2012 and 2015 cars are almost the same on pace.

[Godius]

They are not reasonably comparable, it comes down to which time of the day the races were held. <2014 = day race, >2014 night race.

[bonjon1979]

So I notice that the bahrain race time was 5 seconds quicker than the 2012 race winning time. From what I can gather from wikipedia there was no safety car in either race and the ambient temperatures don't seem to be that different despite one being a night race. Are these cars now quicker than their 2012 predecessors or am I missing something?

Perhaps they are but 2012 is a 3 stopping race where as 2015 is a two.

Sure, but you have to surmise that the teams completed the GP in the quickest possible time in 2012 so it's kind of a moot point. If they had've three stopped they'd've been even further behind.

In terms of average lap time difference, even accounting for the extra pitstop you're only talking about a difference in speed of a few tenths per lap across the entire GP. My reasoning here is that the extra pitstop costs around 20 seconds. But the 2015 race was completed 5 seconds faster. So there's only 15 seconds difference which if you average it out across 57 laps is going to come out around .3 of a second.

[bonjon1979]

They are not reasonably comparable, it comes down to which time of the day the races were held. <2014 = day race, >2014 night race.

The time of day doesn't have any real bearing if the ambient temperatures are similar. Please forgive me if I'm wrong but aren't they quite similar.

This from wikipedia about 2012
warm cloudy conditions with an ambient temperature of 27 °C (81 °F) and a track temperature of 32 °C (90 °F).

Which is pretty cool for Bahrain. It should be remembered that the race took place at 3pm so there will have been a cooling of the track over the course of the GP as well.

The track temperature at the start of the 2015 gp was 31 degrees

14:57 EDD STRAW: "Track temperature is currently 31C. So that's around 25C cooler than it was for the Malaysian GP."

Clearly, the temperature will drop quicker during the night race than the day but we're not talking worlds apart here as 2012 was particularly cool for Bahrain.

[drunkf1fan]

In the 2012 case yes, because it said it was cloudy. IIRC at one stage the track temps were 55C in FP3, but as the sun moved off the track while the ambient only dropped marginally the track temps dropped very quickly. So because of the cloudy conditions keeping the track effectively in the shade and track temps lower, it's not right to say night/day time makes no difference. Really direct sunlight vs non direct sunlight makes the difference. Sunny day vs night time the track temp difference 20-25C while the ambients only changed <5C.

http://www.pirelli.com/corporate/en/pre ... -sessions/

Finding track/ambient temp of most races is a right pain. Most websites don't have it, never thought to check Pirelli press releases for it though. Even then their one on the race doesn't actually mention the temps.

Amazing the difference some cloud cover can make, FP1 this year was 35C ambient temp with 'in excess of 50C track temps", why they couldn't just say the max temps I don't know but I'll presume that was the session that hit 55C.

Too many things effecting race times now to be comparable. Mercedes being on the 4th race and seemingly according to Lauda trying to stretch this engine. I think most teams were engine saving(ferrari less than most), the cars have more torque and probably significantly worse damage to tires throughout a race from wheelspin/difficult to control power, turbo/ers parts not liking hot temps. For many reasons the current race pace is far far too controlled.

If we had similar conditions to 2012, comparable amount of fuel(account for efficiency and give them the same effective fuel... I honestly don't know if there would be a difference, even 5kg could mean pushing harder and longer). No token changes so teams happy to take a new engine for harder races and push harder, now Mercs are desperate to use as few engines as possible before the upgrades. Ferrari realised their upgrades would take them beyond one engine so did precisely that, use a new engine here because they'd have more power. They'll probably push this one hard for 3 races and use the old engine for Monaco. Let them have 7-8 engines and they'd have pushed harder here with a new engine only expected to do 2-3 races rather than it being the engines 4th race and expecting at least one more out of it.

Race pace isn't comparable to previous seasons for all those reasons. What I'd love to see is a more sensible engine limit so they could push harder and a variable fuel limit. 100kg for all tracks, have it -/+ 10% fuel, harder fuel tracks 110kg fuel, every pushes harder, light fuel tracks 90kg. The biggest disappointment is qualifying times have increased, but engine saving has increased, and race pace hasn't really increased due to the tire/fuel limiting the engines the same both years. Every engine may have 50bhp more to use during qualifying but they can't use it throughout a race. Seeing the cars so far from the limit and so far off qualifying pace this year is highlighting what a problem the tires/fuel/engine saving is currently.

[komninosm]

Did anyone try OPP tyre strat?

[bonjon1979]

Did anyone try OPP tyre strat?

I think Williams did

[Nathanael F1]

Did anyone try OPP tyre strat?

[raymondu999]

I really wonder what would've happened with POO tyre strategy. In my mind - theoretically it should be better to get the prime out of the way first for this race - because as the race goes on into the night, it gets colder, and the options should work better in the cold twofold - easier to get heat into, and the cold won't punish them as much as the hotter afternoon. Vice versa on the primes - the hottest point in the race would be on the primes.

I find it quite interesting that Huldenberg did OOPP though - all the other 3-stoppers did OOOP (or as Maldonado did, POOO)

Kimi's race was good - very good. But he possibly pitted the last stop too late. Shades of Germany 2013 come to mind.

[turbof1]

I really wonder what would've happened with POO tyre strategy. In my mind - theoretically it should be better to get the prime out of the way first for this race - because as the race goes on into the night, it gets colder, and the options should work better in the cold twofold - easier to get heat into, and the cold won't punish them as much as the hotter afternoon. Vice versa on the primes - the hottest point in the race would be on the primes.

I find it quite interesting that Huldenberg did OOPP though - all the other 3-stoppers did OOOP (or as Maldonado did, POOO)

Kimi's race was good - very good. But he possibly pitted the last stop too late. Shades of Germany 2013 come to mind.

The issue is probably traffic. You'd be falling back during your first stint, which you'd need to make for in the other stints.

[bonjon1979]

I really wonder what would've happened with POO tyre strategy. In my mind - theoretically it should be better to get the prime out of the way first for this race - because as the race goes on into the night, it gets colder, and the options should work better in the cold twofold - easier to get heat into, and the cold won't punish them as much as the hotter afternoon. Vice versa on the primes - the hottest point in the race would be on the primes.

I find it quite interesting that Huldenberg did OOPP though - all the other 3-stoppers did OOOP (or as Maldonado did, POOO)

Kimi's race was good - very good. But he possibly pitted the last stop too late. Shades of Germany 2013 come to mind.

The issue is probably traffic. You'd be falling back during your first stint, which you'd need to make for in the other stints.

Plus there was such a discrepency between prime and option in qualifying, I don't see how any team could've made the top ten. Starting on the slower tyre from 11th would mean you lose so much ground it wouldn't be worth it.