Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

[krisfx]

I have a thought. Maybe the fact the Honda sounds like an off throttle blown diffuser is because they're exploiting the exhaust stream. True it won't do as much as the naturally aspirated exhaust from the exhaust blown diffuser days, but maybe they are trying to exploit the limited impact of it into what the new regulations have allowed.

Could it not just be them aggressively cutting the number of cylinders for fuel saving? The Ferrari sounds very similar, though a little less lumpy. If I remember correctly, it's what they did on the V8s.

[Wayne DR]

A head change is 2 tokens.
Piston change is 2 tokens (doesn't include crown).
Combustion chamber (includes piston crown) is 3 tokens.
Injection system is also 2 tokens.

I thought components could be upgraded/redesigned for reliability or safety too. Refer to the attached quote from the Sporting Regulations, Appendix 4, Clause 1c):
"A power unit delivered to the FIA after 28 February 2014, or modified and re-delivered to the FIA after that date, which the FIA is satisfied, in its absolute discretion and after full consultation with all other suppliers of power units for the Championship, could fairly and equitably be allowed to compete with other homologated power units.
Such changes will normally only be accepted if they are being proposed for reliability, safety or cost-saving reasons. Any manufacturer wishing to make a change for any of the above reasons must apply in writing to the FIA Technical Department and provide all necessary information including where appropriate, clear evidence of failures. The FIA will study such requests and, if they agree that the changes should be permitted, will circulate the correspondence to all manufacturers for comment. If the FIA receive no comments which cast doubt on their original decision about the proposed modification(s) they will confirm to the manufacturer concerned that they may be carried out."

The argument is that an under designed component that is upgraded/re-designed to be reliable will, by default, also offer a performance increase... (and it needs the acceptance of the other PU manufacturers and FIA).

[J.A.W.]

Unlikely that due modification - to prevent untimely catastrophic mechanical failure can be classed - per se - as..
..an actual "performance increase" - in that way, more a reliability/longevity issue, as such..

[wuzak]

A head change is 2 tokens.
Piston change is 2 tokens (doesn't include crown).
Combustion chamber (includes piston crown) is 3 tokens.
Injection system is also 2 tokens.

I thought components could be upgraded/redesigned for reliability or safety too. Refer to the attached quote from the Sporting Regulations, Appendix 4, Clause 1c):
"A power unit delivered to the FIA after 28 February 2014, or modified and re-delivered to the FIA after that date, which the FIA is satisfied, in its absolute discretion and after full consultation with all other suppliers of power units for the Championship, could fairly and equitably be allowed to compete with other homologated power units.
Such changes will normally only be accepted if they are being proposed for reliability, safety or cost-saving reasons. Any manufacturer wishing to make a change for any of the above reasons must apply in writing to the FIA Technical Department and provide all necessary information including where appropriate, clear evidence of failures. The FIA will study such requests and, if they agree that the changes should be permitted, will circulate the correspondence to all manufacturers for comment. If the FIA receive no comments which cast doubt on their original decision about the proposed modification(s) they will confirm to the manufacturer concerned that they may be carried out."

The argument is that an under designed component that is upgraded/re-designed to be reliable will, by default, also offer a performance increase... (and it needs the acceptance of the other PU manufacturers and FIA).

Sure, you could change the piston to make it stronger, but you couldn't change the crown shape without using tokens (part of the combustion chamber).

[wuzak]

I have a thought. Maybe the fact the Honda sounds like an off throttle blown diffuser is because they're exploiting the exhaust stream. True it won't do as much as the naturally aspirated exhaust from the exhaust blown diffuser days, but maybe they are trying to exploit the limited impact of it into what the new regulations have allowed.

They are all using the exhaust stream for a small amount of gain.

The cylinder cutting is not to do with this - it is, as far as I can tell, coming out of slower corners, ie traction limited. SO they cut cylinders to cut power to the wheels. A rough analogue of traction control.

[PlatinumZealot]

I have a thought. Maybe the fact the Honda sounds like an off throttle blown diffuser is because they're exploiting the exhaust stream. True it won't do as much as the naturally aspirated exhaust from the exhaust blown diffuser days, but maybe they are trying to exploit the limited impact of it into what the new regulations have allowed.

If i am correct with the sound you are refering to, their engine does not sound that bad anymore .... It sounds pretty similar to the other engines now just more burbbly on the low speed downshift possibly due to ers. functions.

[taperoo2k]

A head change is 2 tokens.
Piston change is 2 tokens (doesn't include crown).
Combustion chamber (includes piston crown) is 3 tokens.
Injection system is also 2 tokens.

I thought components could be upgraded/redesigned for reliability or safety too. Refer to the attached quote from the Sporting Regulations, Appendix 4, Clause 1c):
"A power unit delivered to the FIA after 28 February 2014, or modified and re-delivered to the FIA after that date, which the FIA is satisfied, in its absolute discretion and after full consultation with all other suppliers of power units for the Championship, could fairly and equitably be allowed to compete with other homologated power units.
Such changes will normally only be accepted if they are being proposed for reliability, safety or cost-saving reasons. Any manufacturer wishing to make a change for any of the above reasons must apply in writing to the FIA Technical Department and provide all necessary information including where appropriate, clear evidence of failures. The FIA will study such requests and, if they agree that the changes should be permitted, will circulate the correspondence to all manufacturers for comment. If the FIA receive no comments which cast doubt on their original decision about the proposed modification(s) they will confirm to the manufacturer concerned that they may be carried out."

The argument is that an under designed component that is upgraded/re-designed to be reliable will, by default, also offer a performance increase... (and it needs the acceptance of the other PU manufacturers and FIA).

Sure, you could change the piston to make it stronger, but you couldn't change the crown shape without using tokens (part of the combustion chamber).

It really depends on what the FIA allows under the reliability and safety changes rules and what the other teams will agree to.
You could I suppose argue that for safety and reliability of Pistons, you'd need to redesign the crown shape as well. But that might be a step too far in terms of other teams agreeing to such a change. As with most rules in F1, I expect Honda and the others are pushing it to see how far they can get without using tokens if they can use the safety and reliability rules to change something, then the tokens can be used to develop other parts of the power unit that lead to gains in horsepower etc.

The tweets about Honda using tokens could be rubbish or could be close to the truth, but I would expect a new fuel mixture to have been developed over the first few races of the season. I'm sure those who have access to the paperwork the FIA issues over the course of a race weekend will be looking for mentions of changes to the Honda Power Unit.

[stevesingo]

Based on the following assumptions...

AFR-14.7:1
VE 120%
RPM 10500

I calculate 3.1Bar absolute.

Nice post.

BTW, would you mind explaining deeper this calculations? I got a different result and I would like to know where I'm wrong.

Thanks in advance.

I'm probably wrong...

100kg/hr of fuel @ 14.7:1 AFR would need 1470kg/hr of air

1470kg of air is 1220930223cm3

1500/6cyl =250cm3 per cylinder

Cm/ hr of air / no of cylinders= cm3 air/ hr/cylinder

1220930223/6= 203488372cm3/hr/cyl

cm3 air/ hr/cylinder /60sec= air/min/cylinder

203488372/60sec= 3391472cm3/min/cylinder

Cm3 of Air / cycles per min = cm3 of air per cycle

3391472/(10500/2)= 646cm3 of used air per cycle.

Cylinder Cm3 * VE= NA cylinder filling

267*120%= 320cm3

(Used air/ cyl cm3)*VE = boost

(646/267)*120% = 2.9bar

Edited to correct engine capacity

[Thunder]

Not much news here but that is Scarbs Analysis of the Honda PU:

[CountessBathory]

@stevesingo

Thank you very much for answering my question.

I think that the discrepancy could be located in the value of the "displacement".

Art. 5.1.2 of the 2015 Formula One Technical dictates that must be 1600 cc.

Regards.

[stevesingo]

Doh!

[Facts Only]

Early versions of the rules for 2014 (or 2013 as it was then) just stated 1600cc maxiumum but manufacturers started looking at using smaller capacity engines so the rule was tightened to say they must be 1600cc (± a tiny bit).

Personally I think this was F1 shooting themsleves in the foot when it comes to "green" technology as having no minimum capacity would mean that the manufacturers would make the smallest engine possible for the fule flow rules.

[PlatinumZealot]

Scarbs is really walking a tight rope with his axial compressor shot in the dark.... but... he could be right!!

[GoranF1]

Honda denies use of any development tokens for Spain GP.

[diffuser]

Honda denies use of any development tokens for Spain GP.

It's all gone mad!!!
Livery,
not livery, Delissio
livery
2 tokens
4 tokens
no tokens.