Mercedes AMG F1 W06

[turbof1]

For sure it's not that simple due to many interactions of airflows and adapting upstream.

But it helps maybe a bit in understanding why some teams now go with a blown axle.

I think we would have seen more teams with it if not for the 2014 rule changes. You are basically throwing a monkey wrench into a complex and very delicate system; it takes time for any team to understand how they can integrate it.

I know I'm speaking in general terms, but I can't do more! If you'd be able to speak to a loose-lipped aero chief he'd probably be able to tell this flow structure gets obscured, that vortex breaks up or actually gets created, etc .

[turbof1]

Guys,

I moved the discussion of the front wing to its own thread: http://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewto ... 12&t=22156. Again, the reason why is both its high quality discussion, and the prospect of touching the feet of cfd (which will generate a lot of discussion on its own.). Furthermore, this thread simply got dominated by the front wing debate. Although again the discussion was of a very high level, it absorbed every bit of attention. A car is more then a front wing, so hence why I decided to split topics.

This means that future discussion of the front wing will also go to that thread. I fully understand this can get confusing, but here are a few guidelines:
-Images of the front wing can still go to this topic! Whatever we need for the front wing topic, we'll link to said image.
-If in doubt, post in this topic. I'll move with is deemed to be on topic of the front wing discussion, and leave what's not. No posts will be removed regarding the front wing.

[MacX]

But Mercedes now has the Joker in his hand. One could already in Montreal mobilize with the second specification more power. Actually, this step was intended only for the third motor. But Ferrari has been making pressure, the timetables in Brackley and Brixworth are put to the test. Ferrari has in the engine development with 10 token to 7 Mercedes more leeway

http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/form ... 98420.html

[mclaren_mircea]

But Mercedes now has the Joker in his hand. One could already in Montreal mobilize with the second specification more power. Actually, this step was intended only for the third motor. But Ferrari has been making pressure, the timetables in Brackley and Brixworth are put to the test. Ferrari has in the engine development with 10 token to 7 Mercedes more leeway

http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/form ... 98420.html

Ferrari has more power from the engine during the races? Thats says in the article. I thought that Ferrari's strenght in the races comes from tyres, set-uo wise, and suspension NOT the engine. It's impossible that Mercedes with more tokens spendt during the winter, to have less power then Ferrari.

[toraabe]

But Mercedes now has the Joker in his hand. One could already in Montreal mobilize with the second specification more power. Actually, this step was intended only for the third motor. But Ferrari has been making pressure, the timetables in Brackley and Brixworth are put to the test. Ferrari has in the engine development with 10 token to 7 Mercedes more leeway

http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/form ... 98420.html

Ferrari has more power from the engine during the races? Thats says in the article. I thought that Ferrari's strenght in the races comes from tyres, set-uo wise, and suspension NOT the engine. It's impossible that Mercedes with more tokens spendt during the winter, to have less power then Ferrari.

They do not have more power when run at max power, but Mercedes is perhaps running 90-95% during races and Ferrari is more or less running close to max power both in race and qualifying. It explains also why Mercedes is still on 1.st engine except from hulkenberg who suffered from crank failure. Another thing is tourqe mapping. Ferrari can in race have more top end power, but Mercedes can still have an advantage on torque and drivability...

[mclaren_mircea]

@toraabe

Thanks for the explanation. I didn't think about that, the Mercedes engine not running at full power, while Ferrari runs at full power. I think the top end power of the Ferrari has something with the fact that W06 runs much more downforce, while the Ferrari chassis is more aero-efficient. What do you think?

[giantfan10]

Ferrari has a more aggressive and efficient ERS than the mercedes and can run at close to maximum output for the entire race (ERS)... mercedes has to occasionally turn their ERS down during the race.....
mercedes is said to have a qualifying mode which ferrari cannot match at this point...
the mercedes advantage at this point is in qualifying and the benefits you get from starting out front.....during the race there is not much difference in the power units IMHO
bottom line is i think the mercedes still has a power advantage during the race even though its pretty small

[toraabe]

Ferrari has a more aggressive and efficient ERS than the mercedes and can run at close to maximum output for the entire race (ERS)... mercedes has to occasionally turn their ERS down during the race.....
mercedes is said to have a qualifying mode which ferrari cannot match at this point...
the mercedes advantage at this point is in qualifying and the benefits you get from starting out front.....during the race there is not much difference in the power units IMHO
bottom line is i think the mercedes still has a power advantage during the race even though its pretty small

The Mercedes engine is still to have a small advantage on tourqe, response and drivability.

[dans79]

The Mercedes engine is still to have a small advantage on tourqe, response and drivability.

Based on some of the lap times we saw in china, and to a lesser extent some of the sector times in Bahrain, I think the Merc power advantage is still significant. I could see it being 30 to 40 hp, buy they can't use it all without destroying the tires.

[giantfan10]

The Mercedes engine is still to have a small advantage on tourqe, response and drivability.

Based on some of the lap times we saw in china, and to a lesser extent some of the sector times in Bahrain, I think the Merc power advantage is still significant. I could see it being 30 to 40 hp, buy they can't use it all without destroying the tires.

clarify that destroying the tires portion please.....it doesnt make a whole lot of sense to me....
traction control is in the drivers right foot.... other than corner exit where exactly would this tire destroying because of too much power occur?... i might add that the weakest engine on the grid would destroy its tires if the driver just floored it on corner exit.

[toraabe]

The Mercedes engine is still to have a small advantage on tourqe, response and drivability.

Based on some of the lap times we saw in china, and to a lesser extent some of the sector times in Bahrain, I think the Merc power advantage is still significant. I could see it being 30 to 40 hp, buy they can't use it all without destroying the tires.

clarify that destroying the tires portion please.....it doesnt make a whole lot of sense to me....
traction control is in the drivers right foot.... other than corner exit where exactly would this tire destroying because of too much power occur?... i might add that the weakest engine on the grid would destroy its tires if the driver just floored it on corner exit.

Actually RB is destroying their tires more than Merc because of poor drivability, uneven torque curve and massive lack of top end power hence running with too low rear wing, making RB11 to slide more than necessary.

[atanatizante]

But Mercedes now has the Joker in his hand. One could already in Montreal mobilize with the second specification more power. Actually, this step was intended only for the third motor. But Ferrari has been making pressure, the timetables in Brackley and Brixworth are put to the test. Ferrari has in the engine development with 10 token to 7 Mercedes more leeway

http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/form ... 98420.html

Ferrari has more power from the engine during the races? Thats says in the article. I thought that Ferrari's strenght in the races comes from tyres, set-uo wise, and suspension NOT the engine. It's impossible that Mercedes with more tokens spendt during the winter, to have less power then Ferrari.

Maybe the truth lies between these lines, both from race pace and tyres point of view : http://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewto ... 39#p579039

[.poz]

They do not have more power when run at max power, but Mercedes is perhaps running 90-95% during races and Ferrari is more or less running close to max power both in race and qualifying. It explains also why Mercedes is still on 1.st engine except from hulkenberg who suffered from crank failure. Another thing is tourqe mapping. Ferrari can in race have more top end power, but Mercedes can still have an advantage on torque and drivability...

Mercedes is rumored to have a special "qualify mode" for their PU. They open the waste gate and run the compressor only with the MGU-H. Ferrari is working on to implement the same.

[rifrafs2kees]

Through out the lap or at peak power demands?

[hurril]

They do not have more power when run at max power, but Mercedes is perhaps running 90-95% during races and Ferrari is more or less running close to max power both in race and qualifying. It explains also why Mercedes is still on 1.st engine except from hulkenberg who suffered from crank failure. Another thing is tourqe mapping. Ferrari can in race have more top end power, but Mercedes can still have an advantage on torque and drivability...

Mercedes is rumored to have a special "qualify mode" for their PU. They open the waste gate and run the compressor only with the MGU-H. Ferrari is working on to implement the same.

Rumors have it that Ferrari has had this from the get go.