Mclaren MP4-30 Honda

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hollus
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Re: Mclaren MP4-30 Honda

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Plus colder air is denser which translates into more downforce.
Rivals, not enemies.

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diffuser
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Re: Mclaren MP4-30 Honda

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Great post from over at autosport from TC3000

http://forums.autosport.com/topic/19828 ... try7165478


you can find the "weight" (how many token a change "cost") in the table at the end of the technical reglement.
http://www.fia.com/R...ulltext=&page=2

What Honda (and any other manufacturer) needs to weight up, is what is the wise/smart/best way to spend their tokens.
This needs to take two aspects into account - IMHO. First, you need to be sure, that what you do brings performance and is "scalable"/future proof (I will explain what I mean with this later).
Because you can do "reliability" upgrades later/any time. Therefore it's o.k. to be "bold" (at least from a technical pov - let's ignore for a moment any "image" constrains, like that your board doesn't want to see his engines blowing up spectaculary in front of a multi-million viewer TV audience (think Renault or Pirelli's tyre dramas -> bad from a PR pov), because you can "get this fixed later on", but you have to make sure, that you chose the "right development path" long term wise, even if this may causes you some short term pain/headaches.
But you also have to "put your chips down" (use your tokens) at one point, because they don't carry over.
If you don't spend them this year, you can't spend them in the future.

Now, their is a second aspect to this.
It's not just, that you "lose" your tokens (have less and less to spend in the coming years), there are also more and more areas of the engine frozen from year to year. This is the point, where you need to be smart/ try to anticipate the future.
You may go with a certain design, and then as you move forward (increase power etc.) you may will find, that the solution you have chosen,while looking o.k. back at the moment you went with it, now proves to be a limitation/handicap, but unfortunately you cant change it any longer, even if you still have tokens, because it has become "frozen".

For an example look at the table in the second position lower crank case "All dimensions including Cylinder bore position relative to legality volume,water core.", if you want to change this, it cost 3 tokens, but it get's frozen next year.
So if you find in 2018 (let's assume for now, that there is no major change in the general direction of the PU regs), that your solution is "suboptimal" you are "stuck" with this choice.
You will see, that other areas like combustion camber design and MGU-H remain open until 2018+.

Therefore, Honda needs to find a balance and needs to make sure, that their base layout is "scaleable"/future proof, and that they have the basics covered. If this is the case, they will have to allocate the remaining tokens where they see the "best bang for their bucks" performance wise. It may causes some issues/headaches in the short/medium term in terms of reliability, but on this aspect, they can still work later on.

I feel/think, that they still will weight up their options, and explorer different development paths, then they will most likely track test some PU's in Austria (2nd test), to verify on the track, what their simulations / test bed results "promised", and then go with the "best" /most promising solution for the second half of the seasons.
They may chose to keep 2-3 tokens "up their sleeve" if they "have a change of heart" or see/find that they need to change something.

I would expect (but I could be wrong), that they will "ramp up their game" in the second half of the season (past Austria).
Then we may see, more agressive jumps/steps in performance (on the PU side), but maybe will have to also live with a blown-up engine or two in the process.
No Pain - No Gain.

It will be interesting to see, which route Honda takes (do they stick with their current turbo/compressor layout - or was it just a "stop gap solution", until, they get a Mercedes style system up and running reliable).
And if this (their current layout) proves to be "the way to go" for the long term, or if they will fail to get their philosophy working on a practical level (winning races/championships).

Many concepts look "good"/promissing on a conceptual level - I think McLaren has their fair share of expirience with this too - Octopuse exhaust, L-shaped side pods, rear "blockers" etc.
I'm sure it all looked good in a simulation, and they had sound reasons to go with it, nevertheless it didn't seem to quite work out in practise, it didn't became a "game changer".
But to be fair one should remember, that they had good concepts too, which carried over, and became "en vouge" - like the F-duct and theirJ-damper (inerter) developments.

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diffuser
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Re: Mclaren MP4-30 Honda

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Mclaren MP4-30 Honda

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AS expected...

Most potential lies in:
1. Combustion chamber and combustion
2. Turbocharger
3. MGU-H
4. MGU-K
5. valvetrain

Hmm.. I wonder how the 9 tokens will be spent.
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mclaren111
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Re: Mclaren MP4-30 Honda

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Article in Omnicorse:
The McLaren yesterday rose to seventh place in the list of the times of the free practice with Jenson Button : the MP4-30 has made ​​a quantum leap thanks to the power unit Honda that applies a 20 bhp more thanks to a new petrol Exxon Mobil . The changes, however, were not limited only to the mechanical part because the image Effe Tech 1 you can see the interesting rear brake duct which was equipped with six horizontal flap . They are not aligned, but s s staggered to create soffiaggi through which you can correct with the turbulence of the flows that are created by the wheels in motion. It is a solution developed by Peter Prodromou in a very critical area of the car.
Image

Has anybody seen this on the car ?

PABLOEING
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Re: Mclaren MP4-30 Honda

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Very big aero upgrade in Austria for McLaren:

Albert Fabrega ES‏@AlbertFabrega 1 minhace 1 minuto McLaren trabaja en una evolución aerodinámica (upgrade) que preveen hacer debutar en el Red Bull Ring, durante la disputa del GP d Austria

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kaepernickus
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Re: Mclaren MP4-30 Honda

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Will be there the whole week (Race + Test), hopefully get to see some cool updates. [-o<

PABLOEING
PABLOEING
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Re: Mclaren MP4-30 Honda

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short nose i read two weeks ago......

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Thunder
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Re: Mclaren MP4-30 Honda

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Didn't see these Brake Winglets before but they look very interesting.
turbof1 wrote: YOU SHALL NOT......STALLLLL!!!
#aerogollum

trinidefender
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Re: Mclaren MP4-30 Honda

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PABLOEING wrote:short nose i read two weeks ago......
Read this where?

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Thunder
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Re: Mclaren MP4-30 Honda

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i don't know about a short Nose. Imho the whole Front suspension would need to be revised to get enough room to pass the Crash Test. Merc, Lotus and Red Bull have much more space to work with. (Space between the Steering Rod and the neutral FW Plane)

Image
Image
Image

And now the MP4-30
Image

Not saying it won't happen but it would be even more work for McLaren as for the other Teams running a Short Nose.
turbof1 wrote: YOU SHALL NOT......STALLLLL!!!
#aerogollum

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diffuser
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Re: Mclaren MP4-30 Honda

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mclaren111 wrote:Article in Omnicorse:
The McLaren yesterday rose to seventh place in the list of the times of the free practice with Jenson Button : the MP4-30 has made ​​a quantum leap thanks to the power unit Honda that applies a 20 bhp more thanks to a new petrol Exxon Mobil . The changes, however, were not limited only to the mechanical part because the image Effe Tech 1 you can see the interesting rear brake duct which was equipped with six horizontal flap . They are not aligned, but s s staggered to create soffiaggi through which you can correct with the turbulence of the flows that are created by the wheels in motion. It is a solution developed by Peter Prodromou in a very critical area of the car.
http://www.omnicorse.it/img/articoli/ev ... eriore.jpg

Has anybody seen this on the car ?
no, most of the shots have poor lighting. In Spain, when a car leaves the pits it kind of drives into the sun (westish, I guess) and you get all this shade over the rear suspension.

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mclaren111
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Re: Mclaren MP4-30 Honda

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Nice picture of RW testing in Barcelona (Albert Fabrega):

Image

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FW17
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Re: Mclaren MP4-30 Honda

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Thunders wrote:i don't know about a short Nose. Imho the whole Front suspension would need to be revised to get enough room to pass the Crash Test. Merc, Lotus and Red Bull have much more space to work with. (Space between the Steering Rod and the neutral FW Plane)
Why does the front suspension have a bearing on the frontal crash test?


All suspension, wishbone and steering apparatus are mounted on the front bulk head and nothing further forward. The nose cone is the only part involved in the crash test

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Thunder
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Re: Mclaren MP4-30 Honda

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WilliamsF1 wrote: Why does the front suspension have a bearing on the frontal crash test?


All suspension, wishbone and steering apparatus are mounted on the front bulk head and nothing further forward. The nose cone is the only part involved in the crash test
The shorter the Nosecone, the harder it is to pass the Crash Test. RB had a hard Time pass the Crash Test already, and they have more room to play with.
turbof1 wrote: YOU SHALL NOT......STALLLLL!!!
#aerogollum