More Bernie desperation

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andartop
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Re: More Bernie desperation

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Not sure how much of Lewis' 'marketability' compared to Nico or Seb is real and how much of it is fabricated.

Two words:

British.

Media.

I'm sure anyone who's ever watched a race on British TV or ever read a British newspaper knows what I'm talking about..
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PlatinumZealot
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Re: More Bernie desperation

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Italiano wrote:Is he just trolling nowadays or has he really lost it?

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/119145
Welcome to the club Bernie! I always knew you were one of us!! :mrgreen: =D>
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PlatinumZealot
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Re: More Bernie desperation

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turbof1 wrote:It isn't about being positive or negative. Bernie Ecclestone has a point from a marketing view: drivers in spotlights are promotion for the sport.

Just take a look at soccer: Real Madrid would loose a huge chunk of revenue out of commercial activities if they were to loose Christiano Ronaldo.

Or who would even know the club PSG if not for Zlatan Ibrahimovic?

What have Ronaldo, Ibra and Hamilton all in common? They are very extravert persons; they don't shy away from being controversial. Extravert and controversial sells. This has always been the case, even in the middle ages where they would carve little King Richard puppets out of wood and would always have too few on the markets.

Rosberg isn't like that, and honestly that's good for him. An introvert person trying to force being a Hamilton is never going to work out. It doesn't make him a better or worse driver.

I do disagree about Vettel though. Vettel isn't as controversial as Hamilton, but by no means is that guy introvert.
Agreed..
Vettel has a very fun personality.. but hmm, personality is not what sells these days. Flashiness and sex appeal sells. Half of the celebs have dull personalities, poor social skills, but their claim to fame is their appearance and their actions. Good natural looks don't even do much for you these days lol just cover that up with tonnes of makeup, wigs, fake body parts, gold chains and bam! you have their attention.

I agree that drivers are different personalities and I think what Nico and Vettel have to do is try to sell the sport in not the way Hamilton does it, but in their own way.
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turbof1
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Re: More Bernie desperation

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In my opinion Rosberg would fit great with doing a pure physical sports discipline. Something like Button actually does: doing triathlons, or maybe mountain climbing. Something that puts more focus on the activity itself rather then the person, yet something you can still say "hey that guy's from F1".

It'll be tough however for anyone to reach the level of mass-hysteria Ayrton Senna created. That guy could mobilize whole Brazil.
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Italiano
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Re: More Bernie desperation

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Could is not the right word...he did. :)
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Re: More Bernie desperation

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
turbof1 wrote:It isn't about being positive or negative. Bernie Ecclestone has a point from a marketing view: drivers in spotlights are promotion for the sport.

Just take a look at soccer: Real Madrid would loose a huge chunk of revenue out of commercial activities if they were to loose Christiano Ronaldo.

Or who would even know the club PSG if not for Zlatan Ibrahimovic?

What have Ronaldo, Ibra and Hamilton all in common? They are very extravert persons; they don't shy away from being controversial. Extravert and controversial sells. This has always been the case, even in the middle ages where they would carve little King Richard puppets out of wood and would always have too few on the markets.

Rosberg isn't like that, and honestly that's good for him. An introvert person trying to force being a Hamilton is never going to work out. It doesn't make him a better or worse driver.

I do disagree about Vettel though. Vettel isn't as controversial as Hamilton, but by no means is that guy introvert.
Agreed..
Vettel has a very fun personality.. but hmm, personality is not what sells these days. Flashiness and sex appeal sells. Half of the celebs have dull personalities, poor social skills, but their claim to fame is their appearance and their actions. Good natural looks don't even do much for you these days lol just cover that up with tonnes of makeup, wigs, fake body parts, gold chains and bam! you have their attention.

I agree that drivers are different personalities and I think what Nico and Vettel have to do is try to sell the sport in not the way Hamilton does it, but in their own way.
I dont know that the majority of f1 fans look for sex appeal...thats surely not what i care about. And im not sure a single F1 driver would actually possess It. Now i would like to see a lot less whining and spoiled behavior. Having a mans man type of driver like the vintage sort, or a playboy like hunt would surely help. But moddern drivers are portrayed as spoiled brats by the media...at least what little media we get in the US.

This is compared to NASCAR or indy, with a bit of the danger element remaining and drivers actually expressing anger towards each other. Drivers passionate enough to take the fine for throwing a punch. If it werent for the races being on ovals...im not sure F1 would have the opportunities it does here.

Maybe the media plays a bigger role in it than i realize..

kptaylor
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Re: More Bernie desperation

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Yep, it's all media driven now, that's why there are so many paid drivers and focus on sponsorship. Do you honestly think no one ever asked Lewis to tone down some aspects of his personal life as a result of a sponsor questioning something?

Regarding VET & ROS, they're both new fathers (or soon to be), where do you expect them to be other than home with their families when not racing or promoting? Out with teenage girls?

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: More Bernie desperation

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I thought Bernie was quite rude to be directly comparing Rosberg to Hamilton in front of Rosbergs face. lol But the man speaks it like it is! Rosberg and Vettel are indeed not good for business! Dwindling attendance numbers in Germany. Compare it to Silverstone.
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SiLo
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Re: More Bernie desperation

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PlatinumZealot wrote:I thought Bernie was quite rude to be directly comparing Rosberg to Hamilton in front of Rosbergs face. lol But the man speaks it like it is! Rosberg and Vettel are indeed not good for business! Dwindling attendance numbers in Germany. Compare it to Silverstone.
He could have been more tactful about it, but essentially he is right.

I can't remember the last time I saw anything about Vettel in the media outside of an actual F1 event. Rosberg does OK with his video updates but they are small and still only limited to race weekends.

Hamilton is doing a stellar job of being seen everywhere doing everything and it does help raise the profile a lot. If more famous people get interested, and the masses feed of gossip of famous people like an addict hooked up to an IV of morphine, then it can only be a good thing.
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Andres125sx
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Re: More Bernie desperation

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PlatinumZealot wrote:I thought Bernie was quite rude to be directly comparing Rosberg to Hamilton in front of Rosbergs face. lol But the man speaks it like it is! Rosberg and Vettel are indeed not good for business! Dwindling attendance numbers in Germany. Compare it to Silverstone.
IMHO, assuming those dwindling attendance numbers are Vettel and Rosberg responsability is absurd. That´s happening all around the world, except on those countries hosting a F1 race for first time obviously, so there must be something more...

And that´s Bernie´s responsability, promoting the sport, something he did flawlesly some decades back, but not lately, so trying to blame drivers because of his own failure is crazy at least

wesley123
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Re: More Bernie desperation

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PlatinumZealot wrote:I thought Bernie was quite rude to be directly comparing Rosberg to Hamilton in front of Rosbergs face. lol But the man speaks it like it is! Rosberg and Vettel are indeed not good for business! Dwindling attendance numbers in Germany. Compare it to Silverstone.
Saying it liked this showed me another pro-Bernie argument. It is fueling the Hamilton vs. Rosberg fire big time.
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Gaz.
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Re: More Bernie desperation

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andartop wrote:Not sure how much of Lewis' 'marketability' compared to Nico or Seb is real and how much of it is fabricated.

Two words:

British.

Media.

I'm sure anyone who's ever watched a race on British TV or ever read a British newspaper knows what I'm talking about..
Several points - LH is clearly a darling of FOM, the TV director is always showing his guests in the garage, be it a AAA lister like Rhianna or his step mother. If there is nothing on track going on then the tv director just follows Hamilton until the action picks up. If LH is out of position then the GP is basically the Lewis Hamilton show as he progresses through the field and to hell with covering the others- contrast Hockenheim vs Sochi coverage as an example.

Look at all the flags and banners in the stands, every race is a home race for just two drivers, Hamilton & Raikkonen, much like every MotoGP is a home race for Rossi in this respect. Even in Catalunya & Monza there were Union Jacks with Lewis/44/whatever written on them, tracks that had previously had some elements in the stands that were hostile to him.

To further drill this point home, this forum though in English language is an international one yet the Monaco GP thread is dominated by just one event- Hamilton's pit stop, despite Maldonado still not scoring, Sainz starting from the pitlane, Alonso getting a penalty, Alonso's Mclaren retiring again and Alonso stil having a big fat zero on his WDC score sheet. Verstappen still continued to amuse and excite and had an enormous accident, Vettel kept Rosberg honest, Hulkenberg had a miserable race, as did Massa, Ricciardo escaped a penalty for a similar move to Alonso and Kvyat had a decent race and JB & Mclaren finally have points on the boards. But the only topic in town is a pit stop by Hamilton.

Like it or not, he's a superstar.
Forza Jules

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FW17
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Re: More Bernie desperation

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I do not understand the position of Manor, Force India, Sauber and Lotus (and Caterham)

They knew what the engine bill was going to be in 2013; yet they paid for it knowing well they did not have the budget for it

At this point Cosworth/PURE was still around and were willing to supply engines if there was subscription for it; so what stopped these guys from going for it (did they harbor WCC ambition on a sub $100 million budget?

There problems are their own fault

I think they should just call Flavio and ask for some Playlife engines (last years Renault)

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zoro_f1
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Re: More Bernie desperation

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I do not found other proper thread for writing this so i am sorry if I'm disrupting you but this is about bernie, the past and the future of f1.

I am writing this post from a small country named MACEDONIA which is located in south-eastern Europe… yes, now it is a very small land and people from western part of Europe does not know us very well and I’m not expecting you to know much about it, but Americans do know us and honestly I would prefer to be unknown for them too!

This post is coming from my heart which gives me energy and passion for watching racing sports over the years. So… as my passion grows I became a journalist too in a newspaper and I was very happy while I wrote news about F1 which was the most exiting racing sport and that was happening before I became a software engineer… so now my primary profession is to develop programs to works nice and properly on computers.

I don’t have an issue with that… but I do realize some issues in the way of designing an F1 as a show and as a business!

Particularly these are two different things and also there are moments when they are not very compatible one to another. Only people who are spending/collecting money can say that this is one thing but it’s not! They cannot recognize the viewpoint and the passion of the spectator and the side of the companies which are developing technology just to selling the people over the world. Also technology can come free from the heart and can come for selling.

F1 was never opened to designers which cannot bring money to Mr. Ecclstone and the teams, especially Scuderia Ferrari which is a non-sense to get money in the bag when they are not winning championchips! And at the of the day you are still questioning why they are still there!? Are you deadly serious?

I recently watched the half an hour interview with Ted Kravitz and Mr. Bernie Ecclstone and honestly I can tell that Mr. Ecclstone and the others which are running the F1 as a business over the world are making big mistakes and that’s why they are in a position that we are not seeing a race in Germany this year, but we must be happy to see races like Abu Dhabi or Bahrain (!?)

Everyone would like to say that F1 champions came from all over the world, but that world is not the same for everybody as you can find that only 14 different nationality drivers has won the titles and only 5 different nationality teams has ended the seasons on first place… but still there are 195 countries in world!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_F ... ationality

The most successful drivers are from Great Britain and secondly from Germany, then Brasil and so on… but I am always asking myself, why always there must to be battles only from these nationality?

Other countries does not like racing? Does not develop racing tracks, teams, drivers… or they don’t bring money to F1?

Well I’m afraid that some things cannot be fixed because there is a problem which can bring F1 to a big loss if there are still closed doors to other nationality (market companies, engineers, drivers etc.)

Yes… at the end of the year the world will celebrate another title of Lewis Hamilton and still Mr. Ecclstone will not be truly happy because he does not react properly almost a decade or two for NOT opening the doors to the other countries and helping them to be involved in F1.

I wonder why there will never be a Macedonian grand prix or driver in F1… hell yeah… Mr. Ecclstone himself can tell you much more about it.

Thanks for reading me…
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lkocev
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Re: More Bernie desperation

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zoro_f1 wrote:I recently watched the half an hour interview with Ted Kravitz and Mr. Bernie Ecclstone and honestly I can tell that Mr. Ecclstone and the others which are running the F1 as a business over the world are making big mistakes and that’s why they are in a position that we are not seeing a race in Germany this year, but we must be happy to see races like Abu Dhabi or Bahrain (!?)

...

The most successful drivers are from Great Britain and secondly from Germany, then Brasil and so on… but I am always asking myself, why always there must to be battles only from these nationality?

Other countries does not like racing? Does not develop racing tracks, teams, drivers… or they don’t bring money to F1?

...

I wonder why there will never be a Macedonian grand prix or driver in F1… hell yeah… Mr. Ecclstone himself can tell you much more about it.

Thanks for reading me…
Zdravo brat Makedonski... I am also Macedonian, although I live in Victoria, Australia.

I can appreciate your post and I agree that there are many closed doors in F1, but unfortunately that is really the nature of the sport. Any sport or business for that matter, will generally perform at its best, when amongst a highly competitive local environment. I think its for this matter that F1 teams more often than not, set up there facilities in a general locality of England. It would be quite difficult to set something up outside of England where there is little chance of finding experienced employees. That is not to say that there are not for example Macedonian engineers/technical staff involved with F1, it is however likely that they moved to England in order to do so, remember that is where the majority of F1 teams have their facilities set up.

As far as seeing a Macedonian driver in F1, I highly doubt that will ever happen, and it is really a question of simple economics. Actually Nico Rosberg is a multi-national if I'm not mistaken, and might have had the option to choose his nationality. I expect people can understand that a German driver has a far broader marketing reach than a Finnish driver, I expect this to be the primary reason, amongst many others that a driver would choose to take the more marketable/profitable choice.

Frankly I think Finland stumbled across two absolute gems in Mika Hakkinen and Kimi Raikkonen. Here are two guys who in different ways are remarkably charismatic, funny, personable and most important in racing, remarkably quick and talented. These are two guys who have enormous followings outside of Finland and I think that had a substantial impact on their marketing and commercial success.

As far as a Macedonian grand prix goes, I highly doubt that will ever happen either, perhaps in a similar way I highly doubt we will ever see a Finnish grand prix. To be frank, Finland is not too economically dissimilar to Macedonia, these are both small countries with low populations, somewhere around 5 million and 2 million respectively. Granted there is a large GDP/capita difference, but neither is a booming economy and for that reason, I highly doubt that there is the population or economics to support such an event.

I know that sentiment stinks, but we cant look past the fact that Bernie wants to sell hosting rights for largest possible sum. To put it in perspective, Australia is a rather large economy and even when multi-year contracts have been signed with FOM for hosting rights, the grand prix is always a hot political topic. The reality is that even in Victoria, the event is largely state government funded, ticket sales don't even come remotely close to covering the hosting cost. So I doubt that small nations, with proportionately small economies have they kind of disposable income to host these events. I don't like that this is the kind of state F1 is in, but we cant hope that is changes anytime soon. Frankly Bernie's appetite for money is insatiable.

As a side note, how long did the Korean grand prix last? What about the Indian grand prix? What about the European grand prix at Valencia? These I think were blatant money milking exercises on behalf of FOM, and like anything of commercial value, if its value is artificially inflated, the practice is on borrowed time, because eventually the organizers will no longer see it as a worthwhile investment.

I doubt that getting rid of Bernie will change most of these problems. I think the best we can hope for is that when he finally steps down or keels over, the hosting fees will become more fair and less inflated.