Fan boost! No more holding back!

[PlatinumZealot]

OK guys.. this is a proposal to instate "fan boost" in F1. These new technical and sporting regs enable drivers to activate their fan-boost at different times during qualifying and the race. In the race it creates better chances to pass hence more pivotal moments and more increased entertainment. I know you might say, "Not this gimmicky sh*t from Formula-e again!' No, my fellow techno-babblers.. this fan boost has nothing to do with KERS or voting on social media. Read on.

My proposed fan-boost is as the name says: an on-demand down force boost from an underfloor fan. Similar to the Brabahm fan car. Except you can only use it through the corners at a time determined by the sporting regs and the downforce gain is not as monstrous. The aim of this down force increase via suction fan is to eliminate or reduce the effect of dirty air that prevents the cars from following closely through the corners. Once the under-body fan is turned on, down-force will be increase even in dirty air. This will give the following car a more than fair(?) chance to get a good draft down the next straight. It encourages drivers to push through the corners when following and tyre can even be pushed more.

May it be standard fans for everyone? A standard location? All these things will have to penciled out.How all this will be regulated or implemented you guys tell me what you think.

[Manoah2u]

only use it through the corners at a time determined by the sporting regs and the downforce gain is not as monstrous

so, all this effort and rules for something ugly and above all....artificial.

don't you think we've got more then enough artificial entertainment in F1?

[PlatinumZealot]

only use it through the corners at a time determined by the sporting regs and the downforce gain is not as monstrous

so, all this effort and rules for something ugly and above all....artificial.

don't you think we've got more then enough artificial entertainment in F1?

The thread is to discuss the technicalities of the proposal so I won't even get into what entertainment is artificial or not - have that in another topic... but I think the fan looks quite aggressive back there.


It is clutched to the gearbox btw.

[piast9]

If you want to talk about technicalities... Well, last time fan car was on the track it threw debris sucked from the track to the cars behind.

[sgth0mas]

Yeah there are a lot of technical reasons its bad. If your fan power fails thats an immediate change in downforce that may throw you off the track.

Also the debris issue previously mentioned.

One of the original fan cars, the chaparral 2J, had fan reliability issues as well as debris issues even though it dominated the races it completed. All it takes is sucking in some asphalt and marbles to really mess up the system and the drivers behind you. If you think front wing wash is bad now...imagine that turbulent air with a mix of hard trash.

[PlatinumZealot]

If your DRS fails it is even worse....

The fan is clutched to the engine. Let us examine the failure modes:

1. Broken Clutch
2. Broken drive-shaft
3. Burn out bearings
4. Bent shroud
etc.

This are less likely to happen than a failed DRS. If the fan does indeed fail though, you will have no less downforce than before.. in fact your diffuser will be now functioning as double diffuser. (I did not mention the ducts that lead up to the fan). There will be more than enough downforce to make the corner.

[sgth0mas]

None of that makes engineering sense.

1) DRS fails in the normally closed position i believe...meaning you have more diwnforce than with it open. A failure simply means you dont pickup a few mph down a straight.

2) If the fan fails in the middle of a turn, you have a sudden loss of downforce. You drive a fan car differently than a regular car.

3) you just identified a list of failure modes much longer for fans than for drs, yet you say drs is more likely to fail...how does that make sense?

You still havent solved the debris issue. Look its been proven a bad idea twice...first canam and then in F1.

[PlatinumZealot]

None of that makes engineering sense.

1) DRS fails in the normally closed position i believe...meaning you have more diwnforce than with it open. A failure simply means you dont pickup a few mph down a straight.

2) If the fan fails in the middle of a turn, you have a sudden loss of downforce. You drive a fan car differently than a regular car.

3) you just identified a list of failure modes much longer for fans than for drs, yet you say drs is more likely to fail...how does that make sense?

You still havent solved the debris issue. Look its been proven a bad idea twice...first canam and then in F1.

In theory.. In the real life DRS has failed OPEN a number of cases with Alonso and Schumacher and maybe another driver if my memory serves.

I need someone of more mental bravery to knock and forth ideas with to develop this further. You are no fun. F1 technical is a mere shadow of it's former self.... Back in the days posters would spend pages developing ideas, fleshing out the advantages and disadvantages by using well reasoned trains of logic and calculation.

Those issues you mention are featherweight issues my friend.

You know easily you can design the system to not spit debris??

[sgth0mas]

Im a mechanical design engineer, I do this in the real world. Thats why its hard for me to join in on this fantasy stuff and support it.

Do you know how "easily" you can design a system to not spit debris? Do you know the materials to use? Do you know what happens when it becomes clogged with debris?

What you call mental bravery i would call ignorance to real world design and engineering. Ignorance and bravery are close relatives but not the same person.

[Cold Fussion]

How can DRS and fan failure modes be compared? DRS is not used during the corners so even if it fails in the open position you have a consistent level through any corners. If the fan fails mid corner you are more than likely going straight off the track.

[Pieoter]

Has anyone considered strategies to increase grip levels off the racing line?

For example, most corners will have one optimal line but has greatly reduced grip 'off the line' more many reasons. Why not use different tarmac or use a grip enhancer compound to create multiple racing lines. This would encourage overtaking because you no longer have one line per corner.

Nascar does this, they change tracks to deliberately create multiple racing lines (High line and low lines on ovals).

[J.A.W.]

Im a mechanical design engineer, I do this in the real world. Thats why its hard for me to join in on this fantasy stuff and support it.

Do you know how "easily" you can design a system to not spit debris? Do you know the materials to use? Do you know what happens when it becomes clogged with debris?

What you call mental bravery i would call ignorance to real world design and engineering. Ignorance and bravery are close relatives but not the same person.

Naysaying aint true engineeering grit IMO, Sgt-S.. how ever did aero-engineers cope with say.. icing issues?
..inc' ice debris being shed into various sensitve components (engine inlet ducts) in flight..
..& that brings up another thing.. reliability of 'fans'( airscrews & associated drives)..
.. these will - surely - have been sorted by aero-types some time ago.. no?

Instantaneous down-force capable spool up/clutching issues (F-35,shudder) .. notwithstanding..

[Manoah2u]

I need someone of more mental bravery to knock and forth ideas with to develop this further. You are no fun. F1 technical is a mere shadow of it's former self.... Back in the days posters would spend pages developing ideas, fleshing out the advantages and disadvantages by using well reasoned trains of logic and calculation.

Those issues you mention are featherweight issues my friend.

You know easily you can design the system to not spit debris??

If you don't like this place, then you can always sod off. F1 tech a mere shadow of it's former self?
there could be pages spent developing ideas that are reasonable and well-thought through.

Ideas that make no sense, have no future, no substance and are weak copies of actual former 'devices' that got banned,
are not going to make full pages of developing ideas because there's no substance to it. You having problems with accepting your idea is flawed and without future is not F1technical's problem or F1tech members that actually have engineering degrees and reply to your 'ideas'.

shooting arrows to fellow members in the sense 'you are no fun' and essentially 'you lack mental bravery' only show this is a thread created to have people follow in your ego. You don't even post any reasonable caluclations yourself, why would anybody take effort in calculating a flawed logic for you?

Have you even taken the time to actually delve into the Brabham Fan car and see why it worked, how it worked, and why it got banned?. And 'clutched' to the gearbox? what's that gonna do in the corners? what does that even mean?

you realise that this device has no real life capability simply due to the regulations? and that regulations in itself would need alteration just to make it possible for this to even be acceptable, and that if these regulations need changing, that in itself would provide possibility to far more capable devices rather than an outdated device?

[R_Redding]

I was worried for a minute that you may be suggesting something really awful like the fan boost idea in Formula E ... a performance advantage based on popularity.

[horse]

in fact your diffuser will be now functioning as double diffuser. (I did not mention the ducts that lead up to the fan).

I guess you could just have an active double diffuser which would be less complicated. Having some sort of mechanism to open the ports in the floor and thus allow more expansion area.

Should be fairly balance neutral (I think) as the gains will come mostly from the floor leading edge, but I still wouldn't like to have to try and set the car up to cope with a shifting balance should this be both on and off through different corners...

I also don't think you get the failure modes problem with this either, as the mechanics can be made to fail open (with careful design). It would be a control problem were the ports to suddenly shut mid-corner, which should be very low risk.