Maria de Villota passed away.

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stefan_
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Re: Maria de Villota passed away.

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Tomba wrote:Maria's biography will appear soon btw.
It was scheduled to appear next week and the title is "La vida es un regalo" ("Life is a gift").
"...and there, very much in flames, is Jacques Laffite's Ligier. That's obviously a turbo blaze, and of course, Laffite will be able to see that conflagration in his mirrors... he is coolly parking the car somewhere safe." Murray Walker, San Marino 1985

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SectorOne
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Re: Maria de Villota passed away.

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"Maria left us while she was sleeping, approximately at 6am, as a consequence of the neurological injuries that she suffered in July of 2012, according to what the forensic doctor has told us," Autosport reports the family as having said in a statement.
Sounds a bit odd. An interesting age to die at as well considering the symbolic nature of 33.
"If the only thing keeping a person decent is the expectation of divine reward, then brother that person is a piece of sh*t"

Jonnycraig
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Re: Maria de Villota passed away.

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The only thread I could find on MDV, but the HSE report is due out today on her crash.

BBC report that there will no advisories and that at the time of publication a spokesman wouldn't comment on whether they've found it to be driver error:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-ca ... e-32845139

notsofast
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Re: Maria de Villota passed away.

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BBC: Maria De Villota F1 crash car 'pushed into lorry'

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-camb ... e-33248493

Cold Fussion
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Re: Maria de Villota passed away.

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That article leaves me with a few of questions:
  • Could she physically not operate clutch while the wheel was turning, or would the ECU reject it's operation while the wheel was turned? (I assume it's the later).
  • A map of the accident is I think required because the article really doesn't make a great deal of sense. If she was entering from a speed of 240 into the stopping area and locked up, it seems to me there would be a lot of time and space to simply bail out of the maneuver. It also seems very strange to make it from 5th gear down to 2nd gear and then have anti stall kick in (which if you desperate to slow the car down you'd be changing down at high rpm's for maximum engine braking) and still not have any time to turn away. The only way I can reconcile this is that she was cruising in at a slow speed, locked up when she got on the brakes and then found herself fighting the systems in order to avoid the trailer.
Either way the operational safety of Marussia was very poor.

stefan_
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Re: Maria de Villota passed away.

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I am sorry to say this, but we might have to take into consideration the fact that Maria was well unprepared, panicked and didn't know how to react and what to do when the automatic systems of the car kicked in.
"...and there, very much in flames, is Jacques Laffite's Ligier. That's obviously a turbo blaze, and of course, Laffite will be able to see that conflagration in his mirrors... he is coolly parking the car somewhere safe." Murray Walker, San Marino 1985

Manoah2u
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Re: Maria de Villota passed away.

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stefan_ wrote:I am sorry to say this, but we might have to take into consideration the fact that Maria was well unprepared, panicked and didn't know how to react and what to do when the automatic systems of the car kicked in.
a possibility, the fact however that she tested various cars makes me feel she was not unfit for the task.
Personally, i feel the tragedy is to blame because of the environment. I assumed even a straight-line test would be
undertaken under safe circumstances. while perhaps the actual straight line-test itself did not have obstacles at either
sides of the 'track', i do seriously raise an eyebrow on how on earth it's allowed and possible that - from the looks of it -
where she needed to park the car looked more like a croweded parking lot. the prior video released also suggests this.

How on earth there's the possibility that there are lorries around, imho, are the reason for these fatal results.

Nevertheless, this outcome or statement to me leaves a couple of questions. to me, it's not inconcievable this can happen
to a contracted racing driver, too.
question 1 then: how do they respond? is there like a 'kill switch' or a procedure to overcome this?

question 2 then:

could there have been the possibility Jules Bianchi, operating another Marussia, had a similar reason as to why he plowed straight into a tractor? Bianchi was driving above 200kph moments before, too. Then had to brake for (double?) yellow, and found himself aquaplaning, or so it was suggested.
The thing that comes to mind is, if bianchi too had his front wheels locking up, and anti-stall kicking in, then that could very well explain why he went straight into the tractor there. It always puzzled me that, if he simply aquaplaned due to the wet conditions; why did he plow into the tractor in a nearly straight line?
wouldn't he had been sideways or backwards after losing control through aquaplaining, like Sutil did moments before?
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Andres125sx
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Re: Maria de Villota passed away.

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Stefan, I can´t agree with that after reading this
the Spaniard's car collided with a support lorry, which had its tail-lift positioned at eye-level, when she was stopping

The report said it was a standard lorry, which had an "unusual" and "larger" tail-lift than on a normal race trailer.
First, that lorry with its tail-lift positioned at eye level shouldn´t be there
De Villota pressed a button to unlock the clutch and disengage the gears before the crash, but nothing happened. A gear change from second to first was also rejected by the engine idle control, the documents added.
She had previously told engineers she could not operate the clutch when the steering wheel was at full-lock, which it was at the time of the crash.
So he perfectly knew what to do, but the system didn´t allow her any gear change or clutch operation
The tail-lift had been left in a position which "not only created the risk of injury, but was also protruding outwards at the level of the DP's [deceased person's] eye"
When questioned afterwards, De Villota said she thought she would miss the lorry and did not see the tail-lift.
I guess the tail-lift was aligned with her eyes, so it was difficult to see from his pov
The report said De Villota had many years' experience as a racing driver and had driven F1 cars for Lotus Renault at circuits in France and Spain
Experience was not the issue, she might make some mistake, as many rookie drivers have done (Lewis engaged neutral in Brazil by mistake, not very different).

Problem was a dangerous object like the tail-lift shouldn´t be there, specially at eye level. That combined with a problem with idle control explains the fatal accident. Idle control can cause this, nothing new and I think it can´t be blamed as the cause. It´s the lorry with the tail lift at eye level what is crazy

countersteer
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Re: Maria de Villota passed away.

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I'm watching a program on NBCSN about Max Verstappen. They are talking to him about his infamous crash into the barrier in Rotterdam in 2014 during a demo run.

"Yea, I was pushing forward really and I was trying to stop the car and but then, you know, the anti-stall kicks in and then pushes you forward again. You know it was too late to take the clutch, I was trying to take it but just couldn't get it on time. And, I hit the barrier..."


Manoah2u
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Re: Maria de Villota passed away.

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countersteer wrote:I'm watching a program on NBCSN about Max Verstappen. They are talking to him about his infamous crash into the barrier in Rotterdam in 2014 during a demo run.

"Yea, I was pushing forward really and I was trying to stop the car and but then, you know, the anti-stall kicks in and then pushes you forward again. You know it was too late to take the clutch, I was trying to take it but just couldn't get it on time. And, I hit the barrier..."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=293uG4Nr3KQ
perhaps a good thing to ban from now on, or with the new regulations comping up. would be massively better as it would show more of driver capacity to keep the car running like the giants of the old days.

no need for a manual stick, but anti-stall not only is factually a driver-aid but arguably dangerous, too.
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
"Hamilton was beating Verstappen 7-0, then the ref decided F%$& rules, next goal wins
while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"

countersteer
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Re: Maria de Villota passed away.

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I thought that, at one time, anti-stall "took in" the clutch first. That would certainly make more sense than simply activating more throttle. Granted, I know little about the details but I do recall an episode of "Top Gear" where Richard Hammond struggled to get out of the pits when driving a Renault R25. He wasn't aggressive enough and the anti-stall kept activating neutral.
Did things change when we went to the standard ECU? Did concerns over launch control and/or traction control (which have been hidden in other functions) lead the rules to be written in a way that created a dangerous situation that, although not common in a race situation, is forseeable in test or demo run situation?

piast9
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Re: Maria de Villota passed away.

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Manoah2u wrote:perhaps a good thing to ban from now on, or with the new regulations comping up. would be massively better as it would show more of driver capacity to keep the car running like the giants of the old days.

no need for a manual stick, but anti-stall not only is factually a driver-aid but arguably dangerous, too.
You're right. Additionally, the main reason of the anti-stall introduction is not the problem right now. In old days if you stalled the engine your race was finished. Now it should be allowed to just use the ERS to start the engine in case of the stall.

countersteer
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Re: Maria de Villota passed away.

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Indycar went to standing starts at a few tracks over the last couple of years and stopped after some severe incidents. Indycars don't have anti-stall and, if a driver got it wrong and stalled the car, he/she was a sitting duck. I recall similar accidents happened in F1 in the past. If we eliminate anti-stall, all together, would we not introduce a safety hazard that its presence has mitigated? I agree about using ERS as a starter motor. It only makes sense.

Manoah2u
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Re: Maria de Villota passed away.

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countersteer wrote:Indycar went to standing starts at a few tracks over the last couple of years and stopped after some severe incidents. Indycars don't have anti-stall and, if a driver got it wrong and stalled the car, he/she was a sitting duck. I recall similar accidents happened in F1 in the past. If we eliminate anti-stall, all together, would we not introduce a safety hazard that its presence has mitigated? I agree about using ERS as a starter motor. It only makes sense.
to be honest, i don't agree there. Indy and F1 simply approach racing differently, and thus the drivers too.

It's not uncommon for a F1 even with anti-stall to remain planted on the grid for some reason. Drivers respond quickly by steering around them, and yellow flags pop up. To be honest, i think it only shows better drivemanship to respond to such a situation. I remember it happening a lot in the 'good old days' and actual 'big shuns' because of it were still rather rare.
Now, we have cars taking off into other cars during collisions because the anti-stall kicks in below a certain RPM.
probably what happened to Alonso too when he hit that wall in testing.
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
"Hamilton was beating Verstappen 7-0, then the ref decided F%$& rules, next goal wins
while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"

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hollus
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Re: Maria de Villota passed away.

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Unfortunately, Ricardo Paletti got killed exactly in that way, hitting a car that stalled in the starting grid:
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2012/06/13/1 ... flashback/
Pironi was mindful of not getting away too quickly as the cars lined to take the start.

But once again his clutch began to creep. This time the revs dropped too low and the engine died – just as the lights were changing.

Arnoux sprinted off into the lead while Prost dodged around the Ferrari. Watson did likewise, Mansell only just spotting the move in time to take evasive action.

Paletti started on the same side of the grid as Pironi, back on the 12th row. Car after car in front of him dodged left to avoid the stationary Ferrari.

The last of them was Boesel, and he was travelling so quickly he clipped Pironi’s left-rear wheel, breaking the suspension on his March. “When I saw Pironi in my front there was no time to change direction,” he said.

By the time Paletti was upon the Ferrari he had reached 10,500rpm in third gear and was doing up to 120mph. The Osella struck the car with such force it launched Pironi down the track, striking Lees’ Theodore.
Last edited by hollus on 07 Jul 2015, 07:55, edited 2 times in total.
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