2015 British Grand Prix - Silverstone, 03-05 July

[Vasconia]

No. He cleared the Williams only because rain arrived. Had it stayed dry, he would have been staring Bottas' gearbox, whole race and should have been satisified with a 4th place and Lewis' wouldn't have lost his tire temperatures and would have cruised away.

Yes. (I'm pretty sure I mentioned this specifically in my post). But the important point is that Rosberg had to drive more aggressively [vs Hamilton] in order to pass the Williams when the downforce advantage on a wet track became apparent.

*That* aggressive driving is what caused him to keep his tire temperatures and pressures up better [as well as gaining him confidence at that pace in those conditions] than Hamilton which also lead to him closing the gap once he was in clear air, vs Hamilton who was also in clear air, but was driving more cautiously, because he had something to lose.

Rosberg had also something to loose too, I mean, a DNF could hurt very much his chances of winning the championship. I think his driving at that very moment was great, but he should do the same with Hamilton and at the begining of the race when he remained stuck behind the Williams so many laps.

[Spoutnik]

It's really intrusting how everyone said "lucky Lewis". How many time Rosberg was lucky ?

And if you recall the event correctly, without this rain, Rosberg will be finish 4th or 3th surely, the rain save his race more than Hamilton race, understand that. Also I think it's matter of setup, the brake balance of Nico was more random or always more at the front. Hamilton always put everything at the rear : Lewis front tyres = freeze. So, it's really nice in those inadequate tires condition Rosberg was faster, but everyone know how much Lewis is faster under the run, it's the rainmaster of the table with Vettel and Button. Rosberg is random under the rain condition.

[Phil]

Very true. It's especially ironic, because Hamilton's "luck" was also his "badluck". The rain was the only reason his victory was in doubt at some point - had it not rained, Rosberg would have been damned to finish 4th and he wouldn't have had to fight with dropping temperature & pressure and contemplating on how much risk to take.

The rain was the only reason that Rosberg got passed the Williams and onto Hamiltons tail - and resulting from that, Hamilton was then lucky to come in in the perfect time for the right tires.

[LionKing]

Rain is just a race condition as dry, not much different than a hot weekend with tarmac temperature, or a cold one etc. Same for everybody. Rosberg was faster on dry tires in those conditions, that is about it.

I think the term luck gets misused too much in this forum.
I think we should reserve the term luck for cases such as when a driver suffers from a long pit stop when a wheel nut stuck, a puncture due to small debris on the track, getting hit on the head a with suspension part from the car in front, safety car erasing a big lead etc. When someone is afflicted with an event which he did not have much control over and others did not.

[Phil]

IMO luck = unpredictability. It wasn't luck that Rosberg was quicker on slicks on wet conditions - it was IMO a rather simple consequence of his aggressive driving to pass the Williams. It was luck that Hamilton got in the right moment - the weather could have shifted either way - or it could have been that the "optimal time to pit" had been a lap later; e.g. the lap Rosberg pitted. It wasn't. Had it stayed a 'predictable' race, luck (unpredictability) wouldn't have played a role and Hamilton would have won, Rosberg would have been 4th.

I guess it also depends on the view point. One persons good fortune is another ones bad fortune. Rain in itself isn't what made it unpredictable. It was the fact that the conditions were changing in an irregular way; dry => drizzle => wet => less drizzle => heavier rain etc.

I definitely agree with the wheel nut though; though to some extent one could say that a sticky wheel nut is a direct consequence of driving over kerbs. But I'd still put it down to luck, as we humans aren't machines, so we have limited input and data and for the most part, these factors aren't an issue irregardless how hard some kerbs are hit in anger. In that sense, I also don't blame the driver for being harder on his car -> it's what they are for here, not to be nursed around at half throttle and make them last a whole season.

Just my two cents.

[PlatinumZealot]

Vettel catching and overtaking Raikkonen:
https://vid.me/1n0N
That's some fantastic control on dry tyres.

Recovering those rear slides really well. Maybe this clip highlights that Raikkonen is having a lot more trouble with the engine response than Vettel. Impossible for Vettel to drive like that without having a really good feel for the throttle.

Highlights the level of skill between Vettel and Kimi.

[PlatinumZealot]

This is your race, left Rosberg - right Hamilton:
38 1:48.709 38 1:49.338 = Rosberg 0,603 quicker
39 1:47.629 39 1:49.591 = Rosberg 0.962 quicker
40 1:42.769 40 1:43.748 = Rosberg 0.979 quicker
41 1:41.895 41 1:43.864 = Rosberg 1.969 quicker
42 1:39.183 42 1:41.184 = Rosberg 2.001 quicker

6,5 s in five laps, 1,3 s per lap quicker, that wasn't by "choice" and neither was the rain

44 P 1:53.679 44 2:09.721
45 2:13.409 45 1:52.659
46 1:51.473 46 1:51.281
...and how it was decided for Rosberg, same tyres (-1), Hamilton was leading and he could have only lost either by being slower (check) and/or worse strategy (nope) but not with Merc controlling it, everything else is talking. So one simple question to close it: do you really think Merc left Rosberg hoping it would give him advantage over LH and therefore problems of them racing? Options were limited once they knew LH was coming in.

Same applies to multiple headlines I saw - "did Williams lose the win through team orders?", what race were they watching on top of holier than thou TO approach? Rosberg overtook both on track (so of course rain helped him too) and Bottas was considerably slower than Massa in the wet.

Hamilton lost tyre temperature because he was driving less agressively as he was planning to do a one stop before. And any seasoned F1 fan knows that when it comes to slick in the wet tyre heating is downward spiral. If you start cold you will never get the tyres warm again no matter what you do. No big deal.

[Silent Storm]

Vettel catching and overtaking Raikkonen:
https://vid.me/1n0N
That's some fantastic control on dry tyres.

Recovering those rear slides really well. Maybe this clip highlights that Raikkonen is having a lot more trouble with the engine response than Vettel. Impossible for Vettel to drive like that without having a really good feel for the throttle.

Highlights the level of skill between Vettel and Kimi.

Hamilton lost tyre temperature because he was driving less agressively as he was planning to do a one stop before. And any seasoned F1 fan knows that when it comes to slick in the wet tyre heating is downward spiral. If you start cold you will never get the tyres warm again no matter what you do. No big deal.

I wouldn't say skill.. As you said Lewis lost temperature as he was driving less aggressively the same can be said about Kimi while Seb recovering from those slides had generated enough heat in tyres to close the gap.

[SectorOne]

Hamilton got the fastest lap but Rosberg clocked the fastest lap during the race.

(i know, i know)

[LionKing]

I wouldn't say skill.. As you said Lewis lost temperature as he was driving less aggressively the same can be said about Kimi while Seb recovering from those slides had generated enough heat in tyres to close the gap.

Driving in wet is everything to do skill and car control in those conditions.

It is not just a coincidence that arguably two best drivers of all time, Senna and Micheal were also by far the best and even more dominant in wet.

[Andres125sx]

I must be from other planet, because IMHO Hamilton is so much better than Rosberg than I´ll never waste a minute discussing about that.

For anyone who harboured any doubts that Vettel is the king of the wet:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CJOZ-ZRXAAAj5qm.png

Gains on the wet track on dry tyres

Except from those 4 drivers compared with Seb, only 1 is a fair comparison. Lewis was confortably leading the race, so it would have been plenty stupid to assume any risk on those difficult conditions, he had to be on the safe side. And you can´t seriously compare Williams as a proof of how good Seb is, Williams sucks under the rain

Then you only get Rosberg, and he was faster than Seb on two of those laps showed on the chart. Anycase I´ll never discuss if he´s faster than Rosberg, because he obviously is. IMHO Rosberg can do some very good races from time to time, but he can´t be compared to Lewis, Seb or Alonso


PS. Now I´m wondering how good Bottas is under the rain, because Massa has proven he doesn´t feel comfortable under the rain, so if Bottas is similar, then it could be the drivers instead of the car.

[SectorOne]

For anyone who harboured any doubts that Vettel is the king of the wet:

Did he become king after 2014? Or before it?

[Sevach]

Except from those 4 drivers compared with Seb, only 1 is a fair comparison. Lewis was confortably leading the race, so it would have been plenty stupid to assume any risk on those difficult conditions, he had to be on the safe side. And you can´t seriously compare Williams as a proof of how good Seb is, Williams sucks under the rain

Then you only get Rosberg, and he was faster than Seb on two of those laps showed on the chart. Anycase I´ll never discuss if he´s faster than Rosberg, because he obviously is. IMHO Rosberg can do some very good races from time to time, but he can´t be compared to Lewis, Seb or Alonso


PS. Now I´m wondering how good Bottas is under the rain, because Massa has proven he doesn´t feel comfortable under the rain, so if Bottas is similar, then it could be the drivers instead of the car.

2 things about Vettel (yesterday not in general).
1- His car isn't a Mercedes.
2- He was half a lap behind and with rain coming and going he might not have got the exact same conditions on some laps.

With that said he sure did a good job on those initial wet laps.

On Felipe and Bottas...
Besides some early career shockers(and first impressions are hard to shake off), Felipe has been ok in the rain, definitely not a rain master though.

Bottas had one marvelous qualy in Canada 2013, but other than that he also has been average usually he neither progresses nor loses to Felipe (yesterday he lost).

[Shrieker]

In hindsight Hamilton made a great call but he was pressured into it by Rosberg - he actually was pressured into a mistake. Which turned out to be the best thing to do.

Hats off to him though for daring to try something different in the face of adversity, especially after what happened in Monaco. In the end, it's the driver's hands that guide the steering wheel. That's why I felt it was his mistake and his alone in Monaco, whereas here it was his own success.

For Rosberg though, it explains why he was smiling after the race. Although he didn't win it, he knew (along with everybody else) that he was the fastest Merc driver out there when the conditions were difficult. Sure, him pushing prior most probably helped with tyre temps in changing conditions (probably was the same for Vettel) but he was faster at the time which is what matters.

In hindsight, when he caught Hamilton, Nico's conundrum was that he either had to wait an extra lap or pit back to back with Lewis in the same lap which wouldn't have changed the end result - despite all his speed.

[zeph]

Now I´m wondering how good Bottas is under the rain, because Massa has proven he doesn´t feel comfortable under the rain, so if Bottas is similar, then it could be the drivers instead of the car.

I don't know about that. Massa was just ahead of Bottas, but extended his lead to 30+ secs when it started raining. One race is insufficient data, but based on yesterday I'd say Massa is a lot better in the rain.