2015 British Grand Prix - Silverstone, 03-05 July

[Moose]

8 for Alonso? For running on the track when the GP finished? He was into the points as a result of attrition and nothing else. He took care of his team-mate's race as well.

Alonso put inters at the same time than many other drivers, for example Kimi, too early. They destroyed their tyres and all of them did another pit-stop to put new inters, Alonso didn´t and he managed to keep the car on track with the second shower and wasted inters, what give him 10th position and last point.

Ask Ericsson if that was a good strategy and managment or not, because that´s what prevent him from scoring in Silverstone

In the case of Alonso - there's a pretty trivial explanation. They have a dog slow car. The only way you get a good result in a dog slow car is through luck. You can try and manufacture your own luck in semi-wet conditions by changing tyres at a moment that does not look like the optimal one. Every so often, that will turn out to be the optimal time, and everyone else will look like idiots. Most of the time, you'll look like an idiot, but because your car was dog slow anyway, it won't really affect your result.

[Traction]

Nico was not better. His tyres were. He just so happened to be driving in such away to keep the tyres warm when the rain came down. Otherwise there is nothing a driver can do to warm up cold slick tyres in the wet.

This is what I was refering to. So Nico do nothig, are the tyres, the car, the weather which make evertying. I can imagine Nico just reading the newspaper while the car is doing everything. Meanwhile the poor Lewis is gloriously fighting against the elements. COME ON...

=D> =D> =D>

[Moose]

No one asserted that Nico did nothing better. Clearly he did something better for 3 laps (or rather, did something better for about 1 lap, and that then cascaded into effects for 3 laps). However, Lewis did a lot of things better for a lot more laps. The result of that was that he was ahead on the grid, ahead into the first corner, ahead of the williamses earlier, ahead before the rain came down, ahead after the change of tyres for rain, and most crucially, ahead at the end of the race.

[SiLo]

No one asserted that Nico did nothing better. Clearly he did something better for 3 laps (or rather, did something better for about 1 lap, and that then cascaded into effects for 3 laps). However, Lewis did a lot of things better for a lot more laps. The result of that was that he was ahead on the grid, ahead into the first corner, ahead of the williamses earlier, ahead before the rain came down, ahead after the change of tyres for rain, and most crucially, ahead at the end of the race.

/thread

I don't understand why there is still discussion on this...

[Silent Storm]

I agree with PZ nico was pushing hard and was able to keep temperature in his tyres while lewis was cruising or taking it easy which resulted in his tyres losing temperature.

The same can be said about Kimi he lost temp in tyres while Seb had a couple of slides which meant he could put some heat in those tyres.

What I found ironic is that PZ said a couple of pages back that Seb overtaking Kimi highlights the skill between them while now he says nico being faster in wet is not skills but better tyres.

[Andres125sx]

In the case of Alonso - there's a pretty trivial explanation. They have a dog slow car. The only way you get a good result in a dog slow car is through luck. You can try and manufacture your own luck in semi-wet conditions by changing tyres at a moment that does not look like the optimal one. Every so often, that will turn out to be the optimal time, and everyone else will look like idiots. Most of the time, you'll look like an idiot, but because your car was dog slow anyway, it won't really affect your result.

Disagree... partly

Yes I get what you mean, and usually will agree, but there are more aspects to consider.

Kimi did the same strategy, and he doesn´t have a dog car, and as you say he looked like idiot.

But then it comes the difference, Kimi entered the pits when second shower started to put new inters because all those drivers who were too fast to put inters with the first shower (Alonso, Kimi and some more) had their tyres completely done

Meanwhile Alonso didn´t enter the pits and continued on track with those old inters

Result? Alonso with a dog car, finished only two positions behind Kimi with the second fastest car in the grid

[PlatinumZealot]

Nico was not better. His tyres were. He just so happened to be driving in such away to keep the tyres warm when the rain came down. Otherwise there is nothing a driver can do to warm up cold slick tyres in the wet.

This is what I was refering to. So Nico do nothig, are the tyres, the car, the weather which make evertying. I can imagine Nico just reading the newspaper while the car is doing everything. Meanwhile the poor Lewis is gloriously fighting against the elements. COME ON...

Nico did something to keep the tyres warm yes. I am not denying that. But! Hamilton being unable to keep the tyres warm can be overlooked because no one knew how these 2015 tyres would behave in the rain. Up to that point it was a mystery how well the hard tyres could hold their temperatures. Rosberg only lucked into it because he was running a two stop and fighting the williams. It was not entirely down to his driving skills.

[skoop]

i don't want to open the can of worms again, but can it be that hamilton killed his tyres during his outlap he did to pass the williams?

[Phil]

I don't think so. While he was aggressive, I think he was also weary of being able to bring the tires to the end because they stopped early (at a crisp of it potentially being a two-stop), so had a longer stint to cover if they were to run to the end without stopping again.

The thing is with driving slicks on a wet-surface is that once you start to lose temperature and grip, the car becomes more erratic, less grip all around. That in turn forces the driver to slow down even more, which only adds to more temperature and pressure being lost. So it's a downward spiral. Rosberg, by having to drive more aggressively to pass the Williams, had more temperature and pressure, so he was able to maintain a higher pace during this stage (relative to Hamilton).

I think the key point is that driving under uncertain conditions has a lot to do with confidence; and confidence is directly related to what the car allows you to do or not. A car that is becoming more unstable as it loses temperature and pressure is not very confidence inspiring.

[Andres125sx]

I don't think so. While he was aggressive, I think he was also weary of being able to bring the tires to the end because they stopped early (at a crisp of it potentially being a two-stop), so had a longer stint to cover if they were to run to the end without stopping again.

This, and also he was leading the race with a good gap to the second so he didn´t need to take any risk going faster than necessary with slicks on wet tarmac. In those conditions it´s very easy to make a mistake and ruin a race he had perfectly controlled before the rain, so being cautious was the most reasonable thing to do.

Unluckily for him, that meant his tyres temperature went down too much, but even so he still won the race, so even with that problem it was the best strategy.

[Samraj_official]

lots of talks are going saying that hami was lucky!! , why dont people stress that nico was even more luckier in monaco? but rather they only concentrated on lewis's pit decision!!!

[iotar__]

lots of talks are going saying that hami was lucky!! , why dont people stress that nico was even more luckier in monaco? but rather they only concentrated on lewis's pit decision!!!

That's because A. It was obvious B. it's British GP thread C. I did bring back this comparison and it does not work in Hamilton's favour. Luck was more in pace vs conditions that forced stops and not in timing of stops, I would say that was on purpose. I'm surprised we don't hear anything about start problems from Merc, unlike Austria, it looks like they didn't solve anything.

They had two laps to pit and neither choice changes the order. So what if Hamilton does not make his as Merc is trying to sell "perfect" call, stays one lap and pits on 44th? He loses a second (or not), goes in, Rosberg pits too and is I don't know 2<x<11 seconds behind on the same tyres and with so many laps to go. If he's faster he still has a chance - that's all. Where is the greatness of pitting or rather Merc not pitting Rosberg? The only way Hamilton loses is if he's slower and gets overtaken on track either way.

For the person (Moose?) that argued earlier completely disregarding reality that Rosberg's bad stop was because of rain that suddenly started while shouting troll , http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2015/07/08/2 ... ranscript/
29 Rain is expected in 15 mins, just for an update on weather.
33 And Fernando, rain looks to be about five minutes away, we think it will affect the pit part of the circuit first.
36 Possible light rain, umbrellas going up. We will keep you advised.
41 Excellent job Nico, it will still be damp, expecting rain shortly. Later: Expecting rain in the next minute or so, more rain.
43 Raikkonen: For me you can make the call but it keeps raining all the time, so… If you see that it’s not going to get heavier then we stop. I don’t know, you make the call.
43 Rosberg (about tyres) :It’s all good. Lewis Hamilton: I’ve got no grip on these tyres, guys. - Box this lap, box this lap.

Hamilton stops and they left it for the other driver to "decide". "..." because they were perfectly capable of making better pit decision themselves - pit immediately after Ham which was the only variable left. Not a big deal but the way they oversell it is annoying.

[SiLo]

He probably lost tyre temp when he went off track.

[PlatinumZealot]

i don't want to open the can of worms again, but can it be that hamilton killed his tyres during his outlap he did to pass the williams?

Tyres won't die that early. They were barely into the second stint. And in the rain cold tyres are worse than worn tyres.

[Kingshark]

lots of talks are going saying that hami was lucky!! , why dont people stress that nico was even more luckier in monaco? but rather they only concentrated on lewis's pit decision!!!

Good, now that luck has evened out, this whole "Lewis lost 17 points in Monaco!" argument can stop now if Nico can get close to him in the championship on merit.