Fan boost! No more holding back!

[Greg Locock]

"If the fan does indeed fail though, you will have no less downforce than before." No, it only helps cornering if the fan generates more downforce than the passive aero. Hence the downvote. So, you are cornering at 5g, 1g from the fan, fan fails, and you have a grip deficit of 1g. You figure it out genius.

[Phil]

God no, please no fan boost. I think I made (or wanted to) a similar point in the F1E topic... It's okay for what it is, and as a startup series is bound to get people and its fans closer engaged to the races, but as a feature, it's a stupid gimmick.

A driver should win on his ability alone, not through help of such a feature. Think about it; For fan-boost to have any legitimacy at all, it needs to be effective enough to make a difference. But if it can make a difference; what is stopping someone who i.e. doesn't really have the performance to win a race he really shouldn't? I take a lot of issue with any feature that is here to 'level' something that really shouldn't. It's like limiting the better drivers because... well, hum... because they are better. What is fair in that?

Last but not least; What works in a spec series probably doesn't in F1. In F1E, the fan boost is effective because it's a race and championship shaped around spec-cars and the drivers having to manage 'energy'! Being able to run slightly more boost (energy => HP) for a small duration actually can make a difference. In F1; the difference between cars is actually a lot bigger, because they are not spec cars, but cars based off very different designs, advantages and disadvantages. So designing an element that will actually contribute a meaningful difference but is equal on all cars is difficult. Even a DRS element will net a different advantage across cars, because not everyone runs the same amount of downforce and wing, so the DRS has sometimes a bigger or smaller effect.

[flynfrog]

Phil maybe try reading the thread before posting?

[Andres125sx]

I really hate DRS and anything wich provides advantage to any driver over his rivals, but I must admit I like this idea a lot more than DRS.

IMHO most of you are taking this idea as if it would be a fan car, when it´s not. At least as I get it this would only increase downforce by a smal percentage, so if it fails it´s not a big problem. Maybe around 5% increase? Otherwise cars with the boost could overtake at the outside easily, and obviously that´s not the point. So if it´s only a small increase, a fail becomes a minor problem because car´s downforce are not based on the fan

Also, the debris problem is solved as easily as using a mesh. If it´s cogged with debris it doesn´t work, not a big problem either, same as if you don´t have the boost.

[Andres125sx]

Anycase this idea made me think... if we want to increase downforce so cars can chase each other closer around the corners... what about an inverted DRS?

Wings (both obviously) should be able to move upwards instead of backward, increasing AOA, and it would be activated same as now, when withing 1 second to the car in front, but for corners instead of straights. It could be activated when releasing throttle and deactivated when accelerating more than 50% maybe. This would give an advantage both for braking and cornering. The AOA increase should be studied to provide a bit of advantage, but not too much.

It would solve all fan problems, and provide same advantage

I´d ban current DRS for straights, because if they can start the straight much closer to his rival then only the slipstrem will be enough to overtake. If it´s not, next braking will be a lot more interesting with both cars paired

[Phil]

Phil maybe try reading the thread before posting?

Sorry, you are right. I only skimmed it. As a technical exercise I find the idea proposed to be most interesting; especially in regards to the theory in how such an implementation could potentially attempt to minimize the effect of dirty air in order to allow for better overtaking opportunities...

Apologies...

[PlatinumZealot]

"If the fan does indeed fail though, you will have no less downforce than before." No, it only helps cornering if the fan generates more downforce than the passive aero. Hence the downvote. So, you are cornering at 5g, 1g from the fan, fan fails, and you have a grip deficit of 1g. You figure it out genius.

Unfortunate that you plucked things out of thin air trying to put words in my mouth.

Where did you see the word "Grip" in my post?

This are less likely to happen than a failed DRS. If the fan does indeed fail though, you will have no less downforce than before.. in fact your diffuser will be now functioning as double diffuser. (I did not mention the ducts that lead up to the fan). There will be more than enough downforce to make the corner.

But anyway, to address something that was obvious for everyone else, yes there will be a loss in grip if the fans fails. There might even be a slide for a moment as the downforce on the tyres reduce. To determine the magnitude of the slide some sort of calculation or simulation has to be done to see how the speed of the car and it's radius through the corner changes as the extra down-force is taken away. If the grip from the tyre cannot support the speed,I suspect the car will slide to a larger radius until the speed comes down to manageable level. I have no detailed idea how this plays out though. I guess you can enlighten us?

[sgth0mas]

The car will simply lose it in the turn. Thats another reason why you want the speed aids on straights...its much safer.

Do you remember what happened when Nasr accidentally opened drs while simply warming his tires in canada? And that was on a straight...imagine losing it in a turn while trying to pass someone.

[R_Redding]

"If the fan does indeed fail though, you will have no less downforce than before." No, it only helps cornering if the fan generates more downforce than the passive aero. Hence the downvote. So, you are cornering at 5g, 1g from the fan, fan fails, and you have a grip deficit of 1g. You figure it out genius.

In the "Gordon Murray Story" video Murray says he had to re-calculate the Brabham fan cars downforce a few times as the figures were astronomical and he didn't believe them at first. He also says "the fan car could get as much downforce standing still as it did at 180Mph" , "Which means you could get a 2G standing start ,and go round hairpin bends just as quick as you could 150mph bends. Which gave a massive advantage."

The main reason I see for a rear fan being banned now (The Brabham was never banned - Bernie withdrew it to keep FOTA from splitting) , is the amount of debris the 80cm 8000rpm fan "hoovered up" and threw at the following cars.

[PlatinumZealot]

The car will simply lose it in the turn. Thats another reason why you want the speed aids on straights...its much safer.

Do you remember what happened when Nasr accidentally opened drs while simply warming his tires in canada? And that was on a straight...imagine losing it in a turn while trying to pass someone.

DRS is a huge loss of down-force and huge shift in aero balance to the front. On the other hand if the fan fails, your total car downforce won't drop as much and the overall aero balance will likewise not shift as far forwards. I can hazard a guess, but I would have to make a good estimate on down-force loss and shift in balance in both cases to say the car would totally lose it. I don't feel it would be as catastrophic, I feel the car would just go wide than swap ends.

Even still, I don't think anything is wrong with the car losing it per say. Any part failure in the corners can cause a car to lose it.

[Tim.Wright]

What exactly is the problem of the fan failing mid corner?? The car will just slide off into acres of tarmac run off and then rejoin the track.

Maybe we should ban tyres too. We have seen how dangerouse those are when they fail.

Why aren't anyone thinking of the children!?!?!?

[Greg Locock]

PZ, surely the purpose of the fan is to help generate grip? Or is just to throw stones at following cars? Another downvote I'm afraid.

[sgth0mas]

The car will simply lose it in the turn. Thats another reason why you want the speed aids on straights...its much safer.

Do you remember what happened when Nasr accidentally opened drs while simply warming his tires in canada? And that was on a straight...imagine losing it in a turn while trying to pass someone.

DRS is a huge loss of down-force and huge shift in aero balance to the front. On the other hand if the fan fails, your total car downforce won't drop as much and the overall aero balance will likewise not shift as far forwards. I can hazard a guess, but I would have to make a good estimate on down-force loss and shift in balance in both cases to say the car would totally lose it. I don't feel it would be as catastrophic, I feel the car would just go wide than swap ends.

Even still, I don't think anything is wrong with the car losing it per say. Any part failure in the corners can cause a car to lose it.

So its enough downforce to makeup for wing wash, but its not enough to matter if you lose it...especially while using as a passing aid mid turn?

I give up on you man but im 110% sure youre not an engineer of any sort. A hobbyist at most.

[Andres125sx]

but im 110% sure

Not an engineer assertion either

[Jolle]

I would go for a 10 seconds rocket boost, with "rocket boost engaged" in a robot voice broadcasted on the television. I think this would attract the younger viewers. And making it for the drivers a bit more interesting, put a princess in chains in parc ferme, with evil Bernie holding her captive.