Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team 2015

[windwaves]

The secret of the Schumi era was, apart from having the best driver, to have a very good balance between engine, mechanic downforce and good (but not outstanding) aero.

I believe I read that the key to the success of the Schu/Todt/Brawn/Byrne era was unlimited testing. Schu literally spent all his spare time at Fiorano. The in-season test ban really hurt Ferrari.

And then you know it is not it.

[scrudriver]

Ferrari were usually fastest at Barcelona during the peak of their powers, so I'd suggest that, vs similarly power Mercedes and BMW engines at least, their aero was actually very good/the best.

Even if you look at 07/08, mclaren were better at slow speed corners but Ferrari dominated Barcelona and other high speed corner tracks. If you think about Lewis's wins at silverstone 07 or spa 08, it was mclaren's massive advantage in wet conditions that made this possible (after Ferrari had been faster in the dry).

So I don't agree with that assertion. Post 2010 (which was a very good all round car, not far from the red bull) however, yes, they've never had great aero compared to rivals.

Any idea whom they lost from their aero dept. post 2010? Would be interesting to see if those guys ended up at Red Bull/Mercedes.

[bhall II]

The secret of the Schumi era was, apart from having the best driver, to have a very good balance between engine, mechanic downforce and good (but not outstanding) aero.

I believe I read that the key to the success of the Schu/Todt/Brawn/Byrne era was unlimited testing. Schu literally spent all his spare time at Fiorano. The in-season test ban really hurt Ferrari.

I've heard, read, & believe the same thing.

I'd go with that and bargeboard restrictions in the post-2008 era. (The lack of bespoke tires hasn't helped matters, either.)

Throughout the '00s, especially between 2006 and 2008, Ferrari invested heavily in bargeboard R&D in order to increase underbody downforce since that's the most efficient kind of downforce. They were very good at it, too.




The 2009 rules pretty much forced a rethink of the team's entire aerodynamic concept, and that sort of thing doesn't happen overnight.

[Vasconia]

The secret of the Schumi era was, apart from having the best driver, to have a very good balance between engine, mechanic downforce and good (but not outstanding) aero.

I believe I read that the key to the success of the Schu/Todt/Brawn/Byrne era was unlimited testing. Schu literally spent all his spare time at Fiorano. The in-season test ban really hurt Ferrari.

What I have said was the consequence of what you say, and the excellent collaboration and coordination of the different areas of the team.

Plus the clear leadership and an iconic driver.

[dans79]

They need to do something differently for sure, because post 2008 their best WCC result was 2nd in 2012, and that was down to the incompetence/sloppiness building at Mclaren rather than merit. I think the only other time they have been this bad in the past was the mid 60's through mid 70's.

[windwaves]

oh yes, the legacy of the Domenicali years ....

[windwaves]

The secret of the Schumi era was, apart from having the best driver, to have a very good balance between engine, mechanic downforce and good (but not outstanding) aero.

I believe I read that the key to the success of the Schu/Todt/Brawn/Byrne era was unlimited testing. Schu literally spent all his spare time at Fiorano. The in-season test ban really hurt Ferrari.

What I have said was the consequence of what you say, and the excellent collaboration and coordination of the different areas of the team.

Plus the clear leadership and an iconic driver.

I think what you emphasize is a lot more important than unlimited testing, which was but a small part of the story of the success of the team during those years.

[GPR-A duplicate2]

oh yes, the legacy of the Domenicali years ....

Domenicalli was just an "YES BOSS MAN" for Luca. It was Luca who was responsible for the downfall and ironically, it was Luca himself who was responsible for Ferrari glory too.

[windwaves]

oh yes, the legacy of the Domenicali years ....

Domenicalli was just an "YES BOSS MAN" for Luca. It was Luca who was responsible for the downfall and ironically, it was Luca himself who was responsible for Ferrari glory too.

Well, not entirely untrue I guess.

Luca was responsible for not firing Domenicali years earlier, with that I agree. In fact Monti should have never let that incompetent become DS. Domenicali's inability to accomplish anything just a fact as well.

I forgive Monti any day though, he is a legend. Domenicali on the other hand a classic Italian "raccomandato", spent decades at Ferrari, did absolutely nothing and ended up in a position ..... Yes, it is also Monti's fault, but Monti is Monti.

[Andres125sx]

Everything Alonso achieved (and didn't achieve) at Ferrari is because of his cars. It's the same for Vettel's results at Red Bull and Hamilton's results at Mercedes. It's always the car, because drivers can't physically move themselves around a track.

Disagree

When a car is 1 second faster, it´s all about the car. When top cars are within 0,5 seconds range, drivers can make a big difference.

Actually, is not that what you have said in this same post claiming Ferrari was 0,5 seconds faster in 2007 than McLaren? Because they only won the championship due to lots of mistakes from McLaren.

I also think in 2008 Ferrari was faster, but McLaren won because McLaren/Hamilton was a better pairing than Ferrari/Massa.


IMHO that´s one of the most extended myths in F1, it´s all about the car. No, it always depend on the differences, with huge differences between cars drivers can do nothing, but when cars perfomances are close, drivers play a huge role.

In 2012 RB was a faster car than Ferrari, like it or not Vettel should have won that title with a lot more margin. It´s only Alonso who managed to hide this advantage with awesome and consistent driving. I´m not saying he did more than his car allowed, but he got more from his car than all his rivals from theirs.

But when you say it this way, it looks like the rest were a bunch of incompetents who didn´t do their job correctly, when they´re the best drivers in the world. For that reason (IMHO) you frequently hear/read about some driver driving beyond the limits. It´s false, but it´s more fair, because it was not the rest of the drivers where incompetents, but this driver made it beyond expectations, even for a F1 driver.

[Vasconia]

Indeed, the drivers can make the difference, not so much nowadays because the cars are quite slow and easier to handle but in the past the better drivers used to have a greater margin than now.

2012 is a good example, when Alonso had a absolutely constant high levels drive and extracted from the car much more than Massa. It wasnt enough because the RB was clearly better in the second half of the season and Vettel was able to extract more from than car than Webber.

[Phil]

Everything Alonso achieved (and didn't achieve) at Ferrari is because of his cars. It's the same for Vettel's results at Red Bull and Hamilton's results at Mercedes. It's always the car, because drivers can't physically move themselves around a track.

Likewise, a car can't physically move itself around a track either. So perhaps the driver isn't that obsolete or irrelevant...

Although I do agree that the car defines the maximum possible that can be achieved. It's a driver that gets it as close to that potential as possible. How much the driver can make a difference depends on how close the cars are in performance...

[Jordan44]

Ferrari were usually fastest at Barcelona during the peak of their powers, so I'd suggest that, vs similarly power Mercedes and BMW engines at least, their aero was actually very good/the best.

Even if you look at 07/08, mclaren were better at slow speed corners but Ferrari dominated Barcelona and other high speed corner tracks. If you think about Lewis's wins at silverstone 07 or spa 08, it was mclaren's massive advantage in wet conditions that made this possible (after Ferrari had been faster in the dry).

So I don't agree with that assertion. Post 2010 (which was a very good all round car, not far from the red bull) however, yes, they've never had great aero compared to rivals.

Any idea whom they lost from their aero dept. post 2010? Would be interesting to see if those guys ended up at Red Bull/Mercedes.

Aldo Costa is a huge asset to Mercedes success. And guess where he came from, Ferrari! I think he's known for being a total genius with suspension. (And many now think Mercedes get a huge advantage from a trick suspension). Clearly Ross Brawn knew his potential. The usual story, he was the technical director so they instantly pointed the finger at him and he got sidelined when things didn't go to plan. And that marked the beginning of the Pat Fry era.

[GPR-A duplicate2]

Ferrari were usually fastest at Barcelona during the peak of their powers, so I'd suggest that, vs similarly power Mercedes and BMW engines at least, their aero was actually very good/the best.

Even if you look at 07/08, mclaren were better at slow speed corners but Ferrari dominated Barcelona and other high speed corner tracks. If you think about Lewis's wins at silverstone 07 or spa 08, it was mclaren's massive advantage in wet conditions that made this possible (after Ferrari had been faster in the dry).

So I don't agree with that assertion. Post 2010 (which was a very good all round car, not far from the red bull) however, yes, they've never had great aero compared to rivals.

Any idea whom they lost from their aero dept. post 2010? Would be interesting to see if those guys ended up at Red Bull/Mercedes.

Aldo Costa is a huge asset to Mercedes success. And guess where he came from, Ferrari! I think he's known for being a total genius with suspension. (And many now think Mercedes get a huge advantage from a trick suspension). Clearly Ross Brawn knew his potential. The usual story, he was the technical director so they instantly pointed the finger at him and he got sidelined when things didn't go to plan. And that marked the beginning of the Pat Fry era.

More desperation....

Leo Turrini, who writes the popular Profondo Rosso blog says that Allison’s contract has not yet been renewed; it’s due for renewal this summer. This comes as other Italian media outlets are reporting that he is ‘under scrutiny’. Clearly they are putting the heat on him – so what’s going on?

SPOTLIGHT SHIFTS TO ALLISON AS FERRARI FALL SHORT OF EXPECTATIONS
CAN FERRARI F1 BOSSES REMAIN PATIENT AS GAP TO PACE-SETTERS MERCEDES PERSISTS?

Same old Ferrari, Same old Antics, Same Anticipation, Same old story of in season failure.

However since Mercedes introduced their second engine of the season in June the Italian team has not only fallen back a little, it has also seen Williams move ahead in the last three races on performance.

[Andres125sx]

Everything Alonso achieved (and didn't achieve) at Ferrari is because of his cars. It's the same for Vettel's results at Red Bull and Hamilton's results at Mercedes. It's always the car, because drivers can't physically move themselves around a track.

Disagree

When a car is 1 second faster, it´s all about the car. When top cars are within 0,5 seconds range, drivers can make a big difference.

Actually, is not that what you have said in this same post claiming Ferrari was 0,5 seconds faster in 2007 than McLaren? Because they only won the championship due to lots of mistakes from McLaren.

I also think in 2008 Ferrari was faster, but McLaren won because McLaren/Hamilton was a better pairing than Ferrari/Massa.


IMHO that´s one of the most extended myths in F1, it´s all about the car. No, it always depend on the differences, with huge differences between cars drivers can do nothing, but when cars perfomances are close, drivers play a huge role.

In 2012 RB was a faster car than Ferrari, like it or not Vettel should have won that title with a lot more margin. It´s only Alonso who managed to hide this advantage with awesome and consistent driving. I´m not saying he did more than his car allowed, but he got more from his car than all his rivals from theirs.

But when you say it this way, it looks like the rest were a bunch of incompetents who didn´t do their job correctly, when they´re the best drivers in the world. For that reason (IMHO) you frequently hear/read about some driver driving beyond the limits. It´s false, but it´s more fair, because it was not the rest of the drivers where incompetents, but this driver made it beyond expectations, even for a F1 driver.

So someone thinks it´s all about the car, drivers do nothing, it doesn´t matter if you put Alonso/Hamilton or Stevens/Maldonado inside the car, they will get same results, and my argumentation is so absurd it deserve a downvote...