2015 Belgian Grand Prix - 21-23 August

[ME4ME]

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/pirel ... gp-weekend

Sources have now revealed that Rosberg and Vettel were not the only drivers to face tyre problems at Spa-Francorchamps, with cuts being found in several other tyres over the weekend after practice sessions.

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/ferra ... re-failure

The laptimes that Vettel was producing at the time of the failure did not suggest he had hit a performance drop-off, while it is understood that there was no indication on Ferrari's data of variations in tyre temperature or pressure to suggest that a problem was imminent.

Furthermore, there are suggestions that initial analysis of Vettel's remaining tyres have found no evidence of excessive wear either

The situation is further intriguing because a failure through over use would likely manifest itself on the most stressed corner of the car, which around Spa is the front left.

edit: first link fixed

[i70q7m7ghw]

I am not remembering any Bridgstone that has been down to the carcass, but it would be good is someone has any photos or videos so we can compare.

Here you go:-


Down to the canvas, still fully inflated.

[SectorOne]

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/ferra ... re-failure

Sources have now revealed that Rosberg and Vettel were not the only drivers to face tyre problems at Spa-Francorchamps, with cuts being found in several other tyres over the weekend after practice sessions.

They must have removed that line of text because it´s not in the link you provided.

[Moose]

The laptimes that Vettel was producing at the time of the failure did not suggest he had hit a performance drop-off, while it is understood that there was no indication on Ferrari's data of variations in tyre temperature or pressure to suggest that a problem was imminent.

Furthermore, there are suggestions that initial analysis of Vettel's remaining tyres have found no evidence of excessive wear either

That's very interesting, and supports the Vettel punctured his own tyre by running off track theory. That said, I thought the tires had the kevlar belt replaced with a steel one specifically to stop a rapid disintigration in case of a puncture. It'll be interesting to see how the investigation develops.

[Schuttelberg]

The laptimes that Vettel was producing at the time of the failure did not suggest he had hit a performance drop-off, while it is understood that there was no indication on Ferrari's data of variations in tyre temperature or pressure to suggest that a problem was imminent.

Furthermore, there are suggestions that initial analysis of Vettel's remaining tyres have found no evidence of excessive wear either

That's very interesting, and supports the Vettel punctured his own tyre by running off track theory. That said, I thought the tires had the kevlar belt replaced with a steel one specifically to stop a rapid disintigration in case of a puncture. It'll be interesting to see how the investigation develops.

Always thought they went from steel to kevlar.

[sgth0mas]

The laptimes that Vettel was producing at the time of the failure did not suggest he had hit a performance drop-off, while it is understood that there was no indication on Ferrari's data of variations in tyre temperature or pressure to suggest that a problem was imminent.

Furthermore, there are suggestions that initial analysis of Vettel's remaining tyres have found no evidence of excessive wear either

That's very interesting, and supports the Vettel punctured his own tyre by running off track theory. That said, I thought the tires had the kevlar belt replaced with a steel one specifically to stop a rapid disintigration in case of a puncture. It'll be interesting to see how the investigation develops.

You have the kevlar/steel replacement exactly wrong.

Steel was replaced by kevlar in 2013.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/motors ... -Prix.html

But continue blaming vettel...its not like weve seen this concern before, or pirellis reaponse blaming curbs/outside influences. Wait yes we have! You just gotta turn off your bias and look at the data (i know...silly request).

[Moose]

But continue blaming vettel...its not like weve seen this concern before, or pirellis reaponse blaming curbs/outside influences. Wait yes we have! You just gotta turn off your bias and look at the data (i know...silly request).

It doesn't really matter whether we've seen these concerns before or not. It matters what actually happened.

Facts:
• The tires were not excessively worn to the point where they might fail under normal conditions
• Vettel was repeatedly running off the track at turn 4.

That leaves us with two reasonable explanations:
1. Vettel damaged his tires by running off the track.
2. The tire had a manufacturing issue.

Hopefully after further investigation we'll find out which of these it is.

[sgth0mas]

Rest assured. Pirelli will determine it was a track issue, and this will continue to happen until someone is injured. Again...we have seen this several times and the pirelli tires are never to blame. Its no longer a coincidence. The simple way pirelli responded in public is an indicator that they have decided it wasnt any issue with the tire, and they will produce data to agree with this.

[FoxHound]

Interesting.

What are the correlations in producing wear orientated tyres that are prone to debris?

Is there even correlation at all?

[TAG]

We need a secret tire test to settle this once and for all.

[Moose]

Rest assured. Pirelli will determine it was a track issue, and this will continue to happen until someone is injured. Again...we have seen this several times and the pirelli tires are never to blame. Its no longer a coincidence. The simple way pirelli responded in public is an indicator that they have decided it wasnt any issue with the tire, and they will produce data to agree with this.

Where by several times, you mean once at Silverstone, when the tires had just been updated, and where the change was reverted?

What other times are you suggesting this happened?

[sgth0mas]

Rest assured. Pirelli will determine it was a track issue, and this will continue to happen until someone is injured. Again...we have seen this several times and the pirelli tires are never to blame. Its no longer a coincidence. The simple way pirelli responded in public is an indicator that they have decided it wasnt any issue with the tire, and they will produce data to agree with this.

Where by several times, you mean once at Silverstone, when the tires had just been updated, and where the change was reverted?

What other times are you suggesting this happened?

Lets see when pirelli tires have delaminated...

Spain, silverstone, korea, spa...thats just off the top of my head. The excuse everytime has been something other than poor design or manufacturing by pirelli.

Learn the facts yourself....

[dans79]

Rest assured. Pirelli will determine it was a track issue, and this will continue to happen until someone is injured. Again...we have seen this several times and the pirelli tires are never to blame. Its no longer a coincidence. The simple way pirelli responded in public is an indicator that they have decided it wasnt any issue with the tire, and they will produce data to agree with this.

Where by several times, you mean once at Silverstone, when the tires had just been updated, and where the change was reverted?

What other times are you suggesting this happened?

2015: we have had 2 massive blowouts.
2014: they went ultra conservative to the point that Rosberg did an entire race minus a lap on one set of tires.
2013: Silverstone
2012: early season lottery, Schumacher said they where like driving on egg shells, Stewart called them unsafe.
2011: I seem to remember some blistering issues

[djos]

But continue blaming vettel...its not like weve seen this concern before, or pirellis reaponse blaming curbs/outside influences. Wait yes we have! You just gotta turn off your bias and look at the data (i know...silly request).

It doesn't really matter whether we've seen these concerns before or not. It matters what actually happened.

Facts:
• The tires were not excessively worn to the point where they might fail under normal conditions
• Vettel was repeatedly running off the track at turn 4.

That leaves us with two reasonable explanations:
1. Vettel damaged his tires by running off the track.
2. The tire had a manufacturing issue.

Hopefully after further investigation we'll find out which of these it is.

Sorry but the picture above of Hamilton's McLaren with ties worn down to the canvas and still inflated (not the only example of Bridgestone tires durability Iirc) without blowing up proves that the Pirelli tires are simply not up to F1 quality levels and imo never have been.

As Webber used to say, they are Mickey mouse tires and shouldn't be in F1.

[LionKing]

There are others like Spa 2013 and Korea 2013 as well:

http://sport360.com/article/motorsport/ ... -spa-fears

"Pirelli said that both of Friday's punctures to the right rear wheels of Vettel's Red Bull and Alonso's Ferrari were caused by debris.
One driver, who was not named, told Autosport.com that there was "serious concern." The driver said: "We've left it in Charlie's hands... We have to trust him."

"Red Bull driver Mark Webber said: "We need answers -- and 'debris' is not the answer."
The incident raised the spectre of the drivers threatening to strike, as they did following the fiasco at the British Grand Prix which saw several very dangerous high-speed blowouts."

http://www.tirebusiness.com/article/201 ... e-f1-tires

" ... The Ferrari driver told reporters in South Korea the tires "will not do 5 kilometers" — not even a single lap — around the Yeongam race track without wearing out. "We have to be honest," Mr. Alonso said in the report. "The quality of the tires is very on the limit." ...."

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/pirel ... /?v=11&s=1
"Webber accused Pirelli of being unconcerned about driver safety."