Espionage at Ferrari and McLaren

[Rob W]

Let's take bets.

I'm betting no points/on-track punishment. Maybe a fine and having to paint their cars red for one race.

Rob W

[modbaraban]

...and writing my goodbye message on this forum.

That's not fair! I think most F1T forumers... okay I'll speak for my self... I have nothing to do with this decision (whatever it will be)! Max acted on his own behind my back!

[Rob W]

Lunch time updates on the hearing are available here:

http://www.planet-f1.com/story/0,18954, ... 11,00.html

http://www.planet-f1.com/story/0,18954, ... 83,00.html

Coulghan's long explanation now makes me think McLaren will be penalised somehow. He's basically admitted they lied in the first hearing on a couple of accounts.

Rob W

[dumrick]

Lunch time updates on the hearing are available here:

http://www.planet-f1.com/story/0,18954, ... 11,00.html

http://www.planet-f1.com/story/0,18954, ... 83,00.html

Coulghan's long explanation now makes me think McLaren will be penalised somehow. He's basically admitted they lied in the first hearing on a couple of accounts.

Rob W

Actually, I believe his statement is 100% coherent with everything McLaren told until today: Stepney revealed Coughlan what he believed to be rule infrigements by Ferrari and McLaren asked for clarification on these issues to the FIA, revealing the floor cheat and imposing stricter verifications for rule enforcement.
After that, a lot of info was passed at a personal level, never on Coughlan's request, and not used in any way. I'm still waiting for what has justified a new hearing...

[warmandog]

Just reading the must of the comments posted about this trial or scandal.
i get atonished..
so if council declare mclaren mclaren guilty " some of our forums colleagues" would stop watching f1 and also leaving this forum.
for god sake...are f1 followers and are you just blind fans from one team.
it is intellectual property what this case is based on.
would you like that projects and info developed by you get public or even worst land in hands of you enemy..of course not.
this FIA-Ferrari union expresed from some of our forum members is getting me crazy.
if ferrari would be the one to apoint. of course they are --- lossers and cheaters...but as mclaren is the one to point at...hell no they are innocents...fia and ferrari did this things just in ferrari bennefits.
come on guys..try to matture...
this is business...a lot of --- money is on the table......you guys think you know everything about f1, more than bernie, tood, dennis, flavio and other..all togheter!!!!
this is insane!!!!

regards

Alex C.
Dominican Republic

[manchild]

I'm not Mclaren fan and I never was. I'm Renault fan and most of all F1 fan. I'm not even saying that Mclaren is completely innocent but I'll stop watching F1 if Mclaren gets disqualified in a way to loose titles because their crime is nothing compared to 10 years of Ferrari and MoSSley crimes. If Ferrari and MoSSley get away unpunished for 10 years for screwing up F1, destroying many glorious teams as well as some small teams and fixing championships than what Mclaren did is a childish prank that has significance to reach in any court. Fish stinks from the head and courts should start there instead from tail.

[FLC]

I suggest you read here.

Assuming it is all true, someone within McLaren is lying. It's pretty obvious that more people inside the team knew.

Manchild, I don't understand how someone like you, who is after justice, is willing to forgive McLaren, that is if they are found guilty, only because the offended side is Ferrari. That is distorted.
Besides, your schizophrenic Stoddy boy says that Max changed for the worse only in 2004. That ruins your entire conspiracy theory, because that is the last season Ferrari were champions.

[checkered]

Somewhat OT (for

which I apologise), but while we're waiting for the WMSC to stop circling the roundabout around l'arc d'honte that the "spy case" is in dire risk of becoming, you might just as well read Gordon Kirby's latest blog entry. It's about a guy called Rick Mears and how he carries himself as a racer and a competitor. Yes, Kirby is also plugging his book about the guy, but it's worth a read still and it can't be a mere coincidence that Kirby decided to post this very feature today.

The Way It Is/ Rick Mears showed us how to play the game (link)

Edit: Anyway, the autosport site seems to be congested half the time, so better take it easy ...

[dumrick]

I suggest you read here.

Assuming it is all true, someone within McLaren is lying. It's pretty obvious that more people inside the team knew.

Damn, you made read a page-long article and I end up again with the same story... that's what McLaren said earlier:
1. for the sake of the sport, Stepney revealed the cheating by Ferrari, McLaren acted accordingly and measures were taken by the FIA to avoid law infringement (stricter verification method, which has nothing to do with changing the regulations!)
2. Stepney has given away voluntarily the data and Coughlan dealt with them in a strictly personal way.

[manchild]

Manchild, I don't understand how someone like you, who is after justice, is willing to forgive McLaren, that is if they are found guilty, only because the offended side is Ferrari. That is distorted.

I'm saying that either everyone who made crime should be punished or none (since no one except Ferrari ever gets punished).

Besides, your schizophrenic Stoddy boy says that Max changed for the worse only in 2004. That ruins your entire conspiracy theory, because that is the last season Ferrari were champions.

No, you see, what Max did in 2004 was meant to help Ferrari but it failed. It was premeditated crime that didn't pay off. They planned to rob a bank thinking that there's a pile of cash in the safe but instead of cash there was SWAT police team.

[FLC]

It's already been discussed a million times or so, but Stepeny did not reveal any cheating. If they introduced stricter front wing tests I'm sure that at one point the new bridge wing would fail and so be deemed illegal. Does that make McLaren cheaters? Maybe according to you. Not only that, but the floor device was the only device that was declared illegal. The other two were found perfectly legal. Does that change anything in your twisted theory? Does McLaren have to copy them in a 1:1 scale or is it enough if they get a good lead, in order for it to give them the slightest advantage?

Coughlan dealt with the information in a personal way? What page did you read?

1) McLaren F1 CEO Martin Whitmarsh - Coughlan said he showed Whitmarsh the email Stepney sent him in March, regarding the Ferrari floor. This is the only time Coughlan mentioned the team's CEO.

2) McLaren F1 engineering director Paddy Lowe - Coughlan mentioned Lowe in relations to the initial information sent by Stepney, relating to devices on the Ferrari car that may be illegal.

3) McLaren F1 managing director Jonathan Neale - Coughlan stated that Neale was the person who took steps to block electronic communications from Stepney after the Australian Grand Prix.

4) McLaren F1 engineer Rob Taylor - Coughlan claimed he had only ever shown Taylor a drawing made by Stepney relating to Ferrari's brake system, upon his return to the McLaren factory from meeting Stepney in Barcelona.

VERY "personal" indeed.
Mind me if I note that the word "fleetingly" is a little bit over-used, and very hard to judge. How fleeting is "fleetingly" enough for people in the business? Can you quantify that?

"Voluntary" does not even belong here. History is full of spies who voluntarily gave up information, for ideology reasons and such, and still spent quite some time behind bars.

I guess it depends on who you ask, manchild, and when. Kind of funny that a lot of non-Ferrari people in the business admit to this day that those rules were meant to stop the dominance of MS and Ferrari. "To help Ferrari after 2004" is funny as it is, you really dont need to add anything.

An inconvenient truth. Did I use that already?!

[djones]

Manchild, I'm sorry but all these things you keep saying other people (Ferrari etc) did are purely superficial. They are your own theories, that’s all!!!

This is a different thing all together, it will be proven, indeed Mclaren have already admitted guilt.

A 6 race ban???

I think they should be excluded from F1 for an entire season (MINUMUM!!). What McLaren have done is disgusting and they should be punished to the maximum!!

They had a run of bad seasons and all they could do to get back to the top is cheat!

[FLC]

McLaren excluded!!!
Newsflash: McLaren excluded from 2007-08

[Principessa]

If this is true there must have been more evidence than just some emailtraffic between some drivers! This is a disgrace! Once again Ferrari has been given a title on a platter! A total disgrace for the sport!!

In Spa-Francorchamps nothing was know yet about the outcome of the hearing. McLaren was setting up their cars and Hamilton greeted the crowd and signed autographs!

[Fan Solo]

Im hoping its more disinformation from you know who!

The public need to see all the evidence... All of it! or F1 will be pointless for me and probably most of us here.