Close look at Vettel's Tire before the moment...

[Sixbarboost]

What if Whiting would start to the enforce the rule against off-track driving, that might perhaps also help matters?

[bhall II]

some excellent info/quotes

Even better...

Formula 1 teams had already been warned about respecting tyre safety limits prior to Nico Rosberg's spectacular tyre failure in second practice at Spa.

The FIA's Charlie Whiting sent out a technical directive after Friday morning's FP1 session in which he underlined that the checks were related to safety.

Whiting went on to clarify that the parameters that will be checked were minimum starting pressure - front and rear - maximum negative EOS camber - front and rear -, left to right swapping of the tyres, both front and rear, and respect of the tyre blanket strategies.

He added that the checks would also be carried out at future events, and until further notice.

While there is no suggestion that Rosberg's Mercedes was running outside any of the prescribed parameters the timing of the TD seemed to suggest that Pirelli faced some concerns after this morning's FP1 session. There has been controversy at Spa in past years, notably related to cambers.

However, a Pirelli spokesman told this writer that the TD was a result of a routine meeting yesterday, and that nothing untoward was spotted in FP1 today.

The TD said: "Once again we have been asked by Pirelli, for reasons of safety, to ensure that all tyres are used as laid out in '15R11SPA Preview,' circulated to all teams on 28 July, checks on the following parameters will made randomly."

It is understood that the reminder came after the FIA measured some unusually high tyre blanket temperatures in Hungary. Today's note was a copy of one issued in Budapest in 2013.

So, I stand corrected.

[dans79]

That leaves us with 2 options.

1. Vettel cut the tire coming through eau rouge. I find this unlikely as every driver was doing this lap after lap.
2. The tire has some kind of flaw in it's construction that caused it to let go 70% of the way through it's expected life span.

[Henk]

What if Whiting would start to the enforce the rule against off-track driving, that might perhaps also help matters?

https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/im ... 109606.png

I have said this before in the Belgian GP thread. I fail to see how these curbs would hurt the right rear so harshly that it would go. It's a probably cleaner line than 3 meters to the right, it puts less lateral force trough the tire and the left rear would be more likely to fail of this kind of abuse. The rear left is also put more likely to have been off track in other parts of the circuit.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think it would be pouhon and blanchimont that would do more damage than running over the top of eau rouge like this. I also think people are bringing this up because Vettel stated that he hadn't been off track. In a literal sense he has but I think he meant that he hadn't run off line and on dirty runoff areas.

[TAG]

I have said this before in the Belgian GP thread. I fail to see how these curbs would hurt the right rear so harshly that it would go. It's a probably cleaner line than 3 meters to the right, it puts less lateral force trough the tire and the left rear would be more likely to fail of this kind of abuse. The rear left is also put more likely to have been off track in other parts of the circuit.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think it would be pouhon and blanchimont that would do more damage than running over the top of eau rouge like this. I also think people are bringing this up because Vettel stated that he hadn't been off track. In a literal sense he has but I think he meant that he hadn't run off line and on dirty runoff areas.

That's what one would think be given the still and what's happening to the tire it's hard to argue that it doesn't. Everyone went outside of the line, Grosjean right rear however isn't nearly in the same stressed condition just a few inches further inboard than Vettel's line.

[kaller]

But a tyre should not disintegrate like that even when taking some/much abuse. It is to be expected for at least some drivers to take such racing lines. If FIA would have deemed that kind of racing line dangerous regarding tyre failure, they would have issued a notice and penalized it. Especially considering they already handed out a note regarding tyre safety. So to me it seems like even pushing a tyre like that, you are not supposed to see such a tyre failure.

[bhall II]

That leaves us with 2 options.

1. Vettel cut the tire coming through eau rouge. I find this unlikely as every driver was doing this lap after lap.
2. The tire has some kind of flaw in it's construction that caused it to let go 70% of the way through it's expected life span.

Not necessarily; there's more to setup than just tire pressure and camber, especially when the restrictions only govern the components in a static environment.

None of this is to say I'm still holding onto my view that low inflation pressure is the prime culprit, just that the answer is unlikely to be so simple one way or the other. I dunno.

Let's see if this works...

[dans79]

Several news agencies have said Vettel was upset because he lost 15 points, and frankly I think that's BS. I think he was upset, and had every right to be, because he came damn close to ending up on this list, Rosberg is equally lucky.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_C ... fatalities

I've read that Lewis complained before the race during a drivers meeting as well.

[PlatinumZealot]

Compression... The black is the lip of the rim, the red is the shoulder of the tire. Notice the difference. Then notice the fact that the lip of the rim is hanging out about 3 cm over the sidewall on the bottom while compressed and laterally stressed.

What is more striking to me is that the tyre is riding on the sidewall! To be clear the lower portion of the sidewall of the tyre is no longer vertical as it should be, but it is rubbing on the ground and under a lot of load. This is what caused the tyre to fail from the edge first.

Good images by the way.

[PlatinumZealot]

But a tyre should not disintegrate like that even when taking some/much abuse. It is to be expected for at least some drivers to take such racing lines. If FIA would have deemed that kind of racing line dangerous regarding tyre failure, they would have issued a notice and penalized it. Especially considering they already handed out a note regarding tyre safety. So to me it seems like even pushing a tyre like that, you are not supposed to see such a tyre failure.

If you damage the edge side-wall it will.

[shelly]

In the race footage it seems that the tire blows up just as vettel puts it on the white line of the right-handed semicurve after eau rouge before kemmel.
At first I thougt he caught some debris there - then seeing these closeup with rim sticking out makes me think otherwise

[bill shoe]

There was earlier post about Pirelli's required minimum tire pressures: 16/16 "starting" and "19/20 "running". Notice that the lower pressure is not referred to as "cold", rather "starting".

Then there is talk about the FIA noticing in Hungary that some teams were running very hot tire warmers. One result of very hot tire warmers is that the tires would need less air mass to achieve the required 16 psi. This would have the effect of then reducing tire pressure throughout the stint. If starting conditions are 16 psi and warm tire blankets this leads to (for example) 21 psi running pressure, but if starting conditions are 16 psi and very hot tire blankets then this leads to 20.5 psi running because there was slightly less air mass to start with.

I also have a more general tire comment, but this is not a Pirelli comment: I am fascinated that the super-thin, super-lightweight, highly-loaded rubber bladders that are violently rubbed against the ground at insane rpm's throughout the race are expected to perform flawlessly. If there are a couple failures per year, the tires are seen as unacceptable. In contrast if an engine, operating in a much more controlled environment, has a couple failures per year then it is hailed as a miracle of reliable engineering.

I say engines are much more controlled because they has an active cooling system (radiators and water pumps, etc.), it does not have much chance of ingesting shards of track debris thanks to air filters, and the power output is continually adjusted depending on the needs of the engine (how hot is the coolant, etc.). In contrast people want to flog the tires mercilessly without any consideration of their condition and if the tires ever fail then they are unacceptable.

But F1 is largely funded by engine companies rather than tire companies. I think Pirelli has some technical problems, but the main takeaway from their current F1 experience is that they have been completely outgunned politically. Think back to when RedBull complained endlessly about tires in 2013 until Pirelli changed them mid-season to suit RB better. In contrast, look at where RB's complaints about their Renault engine have gotten them this year-- nowhere. Renault has its own technical problems but they also have political power.

By the way, thanks to all in this thread for great pictures/analysis/comments. I'm sure the combined wisdom of this thread far exceeds Sebastian Vettel's understanding of the situation.

[TAG]

It's very possible that he could have road rashed the lip of the rim or ever gotten a chip on it that then through the continued severe lateral stress cut into the sidewall. Whatever happened, it wasn't happening to Grosjean right behind.

[dans79]

But F1 is largely funded by engine companies rather than tire companies. I think Pirelli has some technical problems, but the main takeaway from their current F1 experience is that they have been completely outgunned politically. Think back to when RedBull complained endlessly about tires in 2013 until Pirelli changed them mid-season to suit RB better. In contrast, look at where RB's complaints about their Renault engine have gotten them this year-- nowhere. Renault has its own technical problems but they also have political power.

That's because Pirelli does not act like a company that belongs in formula one, they act like the so so rookie who is just happy to be there. Take Hembery for example, he looks like he is going to cry any time the press asks him hard questions, or something negative comes up. Always trying to save face and never offend.

contrast that to Cyril Abiteboul calling Newey a Liar. http://autoweek.com/article/formula-one ... newey-liar

[wuzak]

It's very possible that he could have road rashed the lip of the rim or ever gotten a chip on it that then through the continued severe lateral stress cut into the sidewall. Whatever happened, it wasn't happening to Grosjean right behind.

I guess you are referring the photos in your OP

Now on the top of Eau Rouge, just at thy get on the Kemmel straight. First Vettel, look at the compression of that tire, the angle and then look how much the rim overhangs.

http://s1193.photobucket.com/user/johnc ... 6.jpg.html

Now, the very same spot, Grosjean following immediately behind. Stark contrast in the way the Vettel example is being supremely punished.

http://s1193.photobucket.com/user/johnc ... u.jpg.html

Regardless of what we think of the "safety" aspects, that tire was not going to survive lap after lap of that.

But I would suggest that they are not exactly at the same place, and that Vettel appears to be turning left slightly, whereas Grosjean is not. To confirm, see where they are looking - Vettel is looking left, Grosjean is looking right.