Mclaren MP4-30 Honda

[PABLOEING]

The next very big aero update in Singapore.....Alonso said.

[Thunder]

We know that at least a Merc Style Frontwing will be introduced in Singapore. I'm sure this will need some modifications around the whole Car to work properly. And there could very well be more.

[proteus]

Just a glimpse, I don't know if it has been commented previously, but If there is a temperature problem, why the holy --- this card is painted in BLACK????

The colour of the bodywork makes a negligible difference on internal components' temperature. Otherwise every car on the grid would be painted white, or some reflective paint.

Well technicly black color is only bad on the sun, but in the shadow (or very cloudy day), black color is the best one for radiating heat off, which means that the black car is cooler than any other if the conditions are matched.

[Jef Patat]

I was just about to say the same, so technically they should paint the cars dependent on the weather

[mclaren111]

Amus:

The new packaging has resulted in a leaner and flatter bonnet (below). Above the neck of a fin can be seen below some bulges are gone.

[GoranF1]

Honda as 3rd stronges ICE 30hp down on Ferrari,50 down on Mercedes and 20 up on Renault.
-The problem is ERS,Honda built the smallest turbo and expected to achieve the needed power by running at maximum permited revs 125,000 rpm, whereas Mercedes have a much bigger turbo that spins @little over 100,000 rpm.
-there are no bearings to withstand that kind of rotation
-Honda has set up a working group at the Research Centre of Sakura to address and resolve the issue

https://translate.google.de/translate?s ... t=&act=url

[PlatinumZealot]

I hope they get good knowledge from working at these extreme limits. Imagine if they applied that to a larger slower turbo... that would be very good for reliability.

[a1b2i3r45]

Honda as 3rd stronges ICE 30hp down on Ferrari,50 down on Mercedes and 20 up on Renault.
-The problem is ERS,Honda built the smallest turbo and expected to achieve the needed power by running at maximum permited revs 125,000 rpm, whereas Mercedes have a much bigger turbo that spins @little over 100,000 rpm.
-there are no bearings to withstand that kind of rotation
-Honda has set up a working group at the Research Centre of Sakura to address and resolve the issue

https://translate.google.de/translate?s ... t=&act=url

http://www.omnicorse.it/magazine/63757/ ... o-sviluppo

It may seem incredible, but Honda has rejected the proposal of the Renault that the FIA would be ready to accept that would have allowed the two manufacturers to develop the power unit during the season 2016, to retrieve the technical gap that separates them from Mercedes and Ferrari. The Japanese have made ​​it a matter of pride not want favoritism. Or the possibility of development in the season opens for all motorists, or it does not do anything.

[AxialTurbine]

Honda as 3rd stronges ICE 30hp down on Ferrari,50 down on Mercedes and 20 up on Renault.
-The problem is ERS,Honda built the smallest turbo and expected to achieve the needed power by running at maximum permited revs 125,000 rpm, whereas Mercedes have a much bigger turbo that spins @little over 100,000 rpm.
-there are no bearings to withstand that kind of rotation
-Honda has set up a working group at the Research Centre of Sakura to address and resolve the issue

https://translate.google.de/translate?s ... t=&act=url

There are no bearings to withstand that rotation ? ..... Yes there are. Passenger car turbos run maybe 200k rpm or more, even commercial vehicle has turbos that can run more than 100k.

[bergie88]

Honda as 3rd stronges ICE 30hp down on Ferrari,50 down on Mercedes and 20 up on Renault.
-The problem is ERS,Honda built the smallest turbo and expected to achieve the needed power by running at maximum permited revs 125,000 rpm, whereas Mercedes have a much bigger turbo that spins @little over 100,000 rpm.
-there are no bearings to withstand that kind of rotation
-Honda has set up a working group at the Research Centre of Sakura to address and resolve the issue

https://translate.google.de/translate?s ... t=&act=url

There are no bearings to withstand that rotation ? ..... Yes there are. Passenger car turbos run maybe 200k rpm or more, even commercial vehicle has turbos that can run more than 100k.

Exactly, rpms above 200k are not uncommon, so I was also surprised by this. Maybe the problem with the bearings is due to the combination with an electric motor on the same axle as the turbine and the compressor?

According to this information, Honda made exactly the same mistake as Ferrari with the turbine size. The key of this engine formula is to reach the highest ICE efficiency possible by recovering energy from the exhaust gasses using the MGU-H. Everybody can recover kinetic energy during deceleration using the MHU-K, in that area Honda has plenty of experience. However, exhaust energy recovery is a completely different story which is much more complicated, they simple underestimated this.

[aterren]

It may seem incredible, but Honda has rejected the proposal of the Renault that the FIA would be ready to accept that would have allowed the two manufacturers to develop the power unit during the season 2016. The Japanese have made ​​it a matter of pride.

Oh dear.
I hope that was a decision made in concert with the Mclaren. Given their (Mclaren) poor results for several years, and lack of a title sponsor, giving up a development window like this could be very costly. Of course one option is they have already designed an engine that will be competitive with Merc and can do it within the tokens allowed for next year.

[taperoo2k]

Honda as 3rd stronges ICE 30hp down on Ferrari,50 down on Mercedes and 20 up on Renault.
-The problem is ERS,Honda built the smallest turbo and expected to achieve the needed power by running at maximum permited revs 125,000 rpm, whereas Mercedes have a much bigger turbo that spins @little over 100,000 rpm.
-there are no bearings to withstand that kind of rotation
-Honda has set up a working group at the Research Centre of Sakura to address and resolve the issue

https://translate.google.de/translate?s ... t=&act=url

There are no bearings to withstand that rotation ? ..... Yes there are. Passenger car turbos run maybe 200k rpm or more, even commercial vehicle has turbos that can run more than 100k.

If I remember correctly the FIA banned the use of ceramics and metal matrix composites in reciprocating and rotating components in about 2006 or 2007 (things may have changed since then). Put simply the type of bearings used in Turbo's that run at 200k rpm are usually made from ceramics and metal composites, which If I've remembered the rules correctly are out of Honda's reach. I'm sure somebody will have a better understanding of this (I've not had the time to read the rules in depth in recent times or kept up to speed with commercial engine technology) and will correct me if I'm wrong.
Though I'm guessing this belongs in the Honda engine thread.

[l4mbch0ps]

Amus:

The new packaging has resulted in a leaner and flatter bonnet (below). Above the neck of a fin can be seen below some bulges are gone.

Honestly, the engine cover on the bottom looks bulkier and larger. The bumps have dissapeared because the engine cover expanded to cover them I think. Look at the bulge running below the Honda log - it's much less shrink wrapped in the below picture.

[PlatinumZealot]

Honda as 3rd stronges ICE 30hp down on Ferrari,50 down on Mercedes and 20 up on Renault.
-The problem is ERS,Honda built the smallest turbo and expected to achieve the needed power by running at maximum permited revs 125,000 rpm, whereas Mercedes have a much bigger turbo that spins @little over 100,000 rpm.
-there are no bearings to withstand that kind of rotation
-Honda has set up a working group at the Research Centre of Sakura to address and resolve the issue

https://translate.google.de/translate?s ... t=&act=url

There are no bearings to withstand that rotation ? ..... Yes there are. Passenger car turbos run maybe 200k rpm or more, even commercial vehicle has turbos that can run more than 100k.

Exactly, rpms above 200k are not uncommon, so I was also surprised by this. Maybe the problem with the bearings is due to the combination with an electric motor on the same axle as the turbine and the compressor?

According to this information, Honda made exactly the same mistake as Ferrari with the turbine size. The key of this engine formula is to reach the highest ICE efficiency possible by recovering energy from the exhaust gasses using the MGU-H. Everybody can recover kinetic energy during deceleration using the MHU-K, in that area Honda has plenty of experience. However, exhaust energy recovery is a completely different story which is much more complicated, they simple underestimated this.

It might be reliability related. Another thing is the shaft length and shaft harmonics... It just might be..

[ME4ME]

Also your standard road car's turbo shaft probably isn't doing 200k rpm while pulling 4G thru some corners