Espionage at Ferrari and McLaren

[djones]

Manchild - If you can't prove it then it didn't happen as far as I'm concerned.

Like I said before your comments are pure speculation. Interesting and good for debate but speculation non the less.

This thing with McLaren can be proved (and is).

[wazojugs]

Another dark day in F1 today, shame really. Lets hope that Lewis or Alonso secure the title ahead of kimi and massa.

Maybe then F1 might keep some of its dignity

[djones]

I'm sure you have some good grounds for arguments in a lot of cases to do with Ferrari etc but unfortunately they cannot be proven either way.

It's the responsibility of the accuser to prove something happened, not for the accused to prove it didn’t.

I know it's not your job to start some court case against them or something but I think you should sometimes accept that some of your comments (opinions) could be worng and maybe you should look at it from both sides as much as you can.

[allan]

To be honest i feel really sorry....
Not for mclaren, because if what scarbs had said was true, then they obviously deserve the punishment...
Not for alonso, because apparently he had a hand in the case.
I feel sorry for Lewis, because it's him who deserves the 2007 WDC, and it would be a shame if he was excluded from the championship because of his team's foolish acts...

[allan]

http://www.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/ ... 4710.shtml
No penalty for drivers!!!!!

[effuno]

http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2007/9/6767.html

[modbaraban]

Maybe it's better for the sport to have it that way
But it looks like a political decision, by all means. McLaren are either giulty or not....

You'll understand I'm bound by some confidentiality here.

Mac had Ferrari info BEFORE the season started and before the Coughlan dossier existed. Emails confirm this, and who the source was and stated how McLaren acted on this detailed data....

If they should be stripped WCC points why not WDC then? It was the same illegal car!!!

On the other hand if you buy the story that Mike C. told then a fine for 'bad behaviour' would be just enough with no point penalties whatsoever

[FLC]

If they should be stripped WCC points why not WDC then? It was the same illegal car!!!

I'm not an expert, but maybe because the drivers were promised immunity for giving the evidence?!

[GTO]

You'll understand I'm bound by some confidentiality here.

Mac had Ferrari info BEFORE the season started and before the Coughlan dossier existed. Emails confirm this, and who the source was and stated how McLaren acted on this detailed data....

Sounds very interesting. Scarbs, can you please shed more info. when you are able to.

[modbaraban]

You'll understand I'm bound by some confidentiality here.

Mac had Ferrari info BEFORE the season started and before the Coughlan dossier existed. Emails confirm this, and who the source was and stated how McLaren acted on this detailed data....

Sounds very interesting. Scarbs, can you please shed more info. when you are able to.

I rather wonder what Scrabs is going do with that info...

[superstring]

If they should be stripped WCC points why not WDC then? It was the same illegal car!!!

Enlighten me. I understand that McLaren has been found guilty of using Ferrari technical info to improve the setup of the MP4-22 (suspension settings, brake biases perhaps). That's what they are being punished for. How does this make the car itself "illegal"? It still conforms to the technical regs, doesn't it?

[modbaraban]

If they should be stripped WCC points why not WDC then? It was the same illegal car!!!

Enlighten me. I understand that McLaren has been found guilty of using Ferrari technical info to improve the MP4-22 (suspension settings, brake biases perhaps). How does this make the car "illegal"? It still conforms to the technical regs, doesn't it?

So then WCC exclusion for nothing I meant the car was built using illegally obtained data (according to FIA).

You can't fisically draw all the teeth (WCC) but leave the upper teeth (LH) and the lower teeth (FA) at the same time
(couldn't find a better example)

[Fan Solo]

Edit: may as well have it from the source.

http://www.mclaren.com/latestnews/mclar ... nStatement

Original linkhttp://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_ ... t_id=32757

So all the email text message stuff is tripe according to this.

A punishment had to come as we wouldnt have heard the end of it otherwise, so the CC points can be deducted fairly I guess, as Mclaren all be it not at their request, had data that wasnt theirs.

Mclaren didnt use the data their errant employee had, and never intended to in the first place! why would they? the MP4-22 is a beauty.

As the cars are pure Mclaren (see above), the drivers should not be penalised. Rightly so In my opinion.

The 2008 thing is a sh*t em up, make it sound bad 'sound bite' clause.

Then we move on to the even juicier bit for Ferrari....

Mclaren car to be examined by FIA prior to the start of the season.

Need I say more.


Political as F**k and a complete waste of time, gave us something to talk about tho I suppose, problem was,,,, Mclaren were doing too well in the eyes of the law.

Go Alonso! Go Lewis!

Flatten em!

FS

[West]

I have to agree with Fan Solo. I didn't want McLaren to win this year, but after reading his link, and seeing how Ferrari were not in the same league as McLaren lately, I want to see Alonso and Hamilton pull it off like Renault did last year.

Edit: I would like to know when Mike Coughlan actually had the information. If McLaren was building their current car in the middle of last year, I wonder if there was anyway he could have influenced it, as from I read, his input was only suspension and chassis setup.

[Tom]

I think thats a fair punishment (I was really worried because I looked at F1T news first, and Tomba and Principessa haven't had chance to update it from 'Excluded from 07/08!' because they're out getting real F1 news!)
But from Scarbs comments I think its fair, everyone will remember this as the year Mclaren dominated in their own car and the FIA couldn't handle it, each Ferrari fan here (looking at FLC and djones in particular) knows Mclaren have entirely their own car but their employees are holding information whch they clearly shouldn't.

I know that when most people on this forum are reliving past F1 memories with their grandchildren the subject of 2007 will be told the way it was. Mclaren dominated, their drivers took the championship with ease and lost the constructors on a technicality.

Congratulations Mr Dennis and your superbly wonderful 2007 Mclaren team, I've always tried to be clear I try to have an open mind and not have favorties, but this team this season has done the best job it could have under alot of pressure, no one in the paddock deserves my support more. Well done.