Silly season 2016

[ESPImperium]

My feeling is that Maldonado will be gone. We will see more on the 9th as there is a Lotus Administration hearing at the High Court in London as Joe Saward reported today in his blog.

I have a feeling that Lotus will be taken over in the administration process as Renault will take over the team then by paying off all the smaller creditors to get the CVA through. The same way Manor came through at the start of the year. I do know enough on this matter as my Football team was liquidated and know enough on business law.

Lotus will not be wound up, they will be administered for a 30 day period and in that period Renault will take over after the CVA is approved as no matter if you have a debt of £10 or £10m, each creditor has a single vote as per UK business law. As for the Renault integration, it can be done up to 4 months before the start of the season, or testing. And Renault may even miss the start of testing, yes it may have a difficult start of the year, but that might just give them time. And its not that bad as the team had Renault last year and still have the design data on the engine. With less staff around it may be difficult as the Administrators will lay off some staff first, but its still comparatively easy.

And if there is a Red Bull and Mercedes or Ferrari deal, things will be easier. And if all parties are willing, and able to commit, its going to happen.

[iotar__]

My feeling is that Maldonado will be gone. We will see more on the 9th as there is a Lotus Administration hearing at the High Court in London as Joe Saward reported today in his blog.

I have a feeling that Lotus will be taken over in the administration process as Renault will take over the team then by paying off all the smaller creditors to get the CVA through. The same way Manor came through at the start of the year. I do know enough on this matter as my Football team was liquidated and know enough on business law.

It's not going to happen, Lotus is different than Marussia (not Manor money is for Marussia ) and even if what you wrote was true (it's not) no one would want it to happen - administration, missed races, mess - starting with Ecclestone. It will be normal buy-sell transaction but rather cheap and probably as reported by AS 65 25 10 or something close to that, Renault, Lopez, Prost.

As for drivers I'm not sure they might keep Grosjean mostly because he's kind of French (more Suisse really) and a Total pay driver as F1 "experts" claim. Not for consistent performance and top 2 talent, pace, overtakes, no, that part they missed being busy selling a complete fiction of F1 and "their" mediocre drivers. You think I'm joking? F1 expert Adam Cooper (http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/analy ... e/?v=2&s=1)
"Should Renault give the green light, and Lotus' owners accept Renault becoming majority shareholders, then Romain Grosjean's nationality and Total connections make him a likely candidate to remain with the team in any guise" It gets better with a bone thrown "his superb third place at Spa came with perfect timing." Thank god for that. Following that logic Hamilton should be fired after Hungary then but Mr. Cooper will not write that. This is the state of F1 coverage, these are people paid to write about this sport .

PDVSA is rumoured to have a contract so that would be two pay drivers taking valuable seats at suddenly well funded former Lotus current Renault team instead of real talents. Disregard multiple podiums and indeed a race win. I wouldn't worry too much: bad chassis, bad engine and unknown future technical and managerial team (it will take time anyway).

[Carlos]

Williams retain Valtteri Bottas and Felipe Massa
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/s ... lipe-massa

[PlatinumZealot]

My feeling is that Maldonado will be gone. We will see more on the 9th as there is a Lotus Administration hearing at the High Court in London as Joe Saward reported today in his blog.

I have a feeling that Lotus will be taken over in the administration process as Renault will take over the team then by paying off all the smaller creditors to get the CVA through. The same way Manor came through at the start of the year. I do know enough on this matter as my Football team was liquidated and know enough on business law.

It's not going to happen, Lotus is different than Marussia (not Manor money is for Marussia ) and even if what you wrote was true (it's not) no one would want it to happen - administration, missed races, mess - starting with Ecclestone. It will be normal buy-sell transaction but rather cheap and probably as reported by AS 65 25 10 or something close to that, Renault, Lopez, Prost.

As for drivers I'm not sure they might keep Grosjean mostly because he's kind of French (more Suisse really) and a Total pay driver as F1 "experts" claim. Not for consistent performance and top 2 talent, pace, overtakes, no, that part they missed being busy selling a complete fiction of F1 and "their" mediocre drivers. You think I'm joking? F1 expert Adam Cooper (http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/analy ... e/?v=2&s=1)
"Should Renault give the green light, and Lotus' owners accept Renault becoming majority shareholders, then Romain Grosjean's nationality and Total connections make him a likely candidate to remain with the team in any guise" It gets better with a bone thrown "his superb third place at Spa came with perfect timing." Thank god for that. Following that logic Hamilton should be fired after Hungary then but Mr. Cooper will not write that. This is the state of F1 coverage, these are people paid to write about this sport .

PDVSA is rumoured to have a contract so that would be two pay drivers taking valuable seats at suddenly well funded former Lotus current Renault team instead of real talents. Disregard multiple podiums and indeed a race win. I wouldn't worry too much: bad chassis, bad engine and unknown future technical and managerial team (it will take time anyway).

So Grosjean is not a real talent?
And who said F1 was about the best talent anyway? where have you been?

[TAG]

Any possibility whatsoever one of the strange potential outcomes from this engine musical chair silly season be;

Renault buys into Lotus, keeps the existing Mercedes lump contract in place through 2016 and their direct Red Bull deal through 2016 with a works 2017 Renault team? They'd have the benefit of an up close and personal year with a Mercedes power plant and an entire year to develop their engine with Red Bull win/win situation for Renault IMO.

Red Bull are really not in the driver's seat so to speak through any of this.

[ME4ME]

Well we don't know anything about any contract really. It is possible that Mercedes has a clause that say's it won't supply another manufacturer. And about Red Bull, nobody know's what exit clause there is, if any, for them to terminate their contract early. Besides it's not all about contracts, if agreements are met between all sides they could easily arrange new deals.

[KeiKo403]

Can't PU manufactures only supply a maximum of 3 additional teams? Force India and Williams are locked and won't want to go anywhere else.

So, if Lotus (65% owned by Renault) stays with Merc PU's too then Red Bull can't take the Merc PU next season. That means they'd need to go to Honda or have another PU (VW) enter the sport as Ferrari will be suppling Sauber, Manor & Hass already so could only supply Red Bull or Torro Rosso if Manor switch to Honda as being rumoured. So I see it as most likely that RB & TR stay with Renault until the contract runs out at the end of 2016.

However, I remember Merc allowed McLaren to run the Honda PU post Abu Dhabi last season (I think F1 contracts don't normally expire until 31/12/xxxx) so even if Renault and Red Bull go their seperate ways post 2016, Renault could still make life difficult for Horner & Co between the end of next season and the end of next year.

[iotar__]

Can't PU manufactures only supply a maximum of 3 additional teams? Force India and Williams are locked and won't want to go anywhere else.

One of the reasons why Ecclestone is paying Lotus' team wages . Charitable man he is.

So, if Lotus (65% owned by Renault) stays with Merc PU's too then Red Bull can't take the Merc PU next season. That means they'd need to go to Honda or have another PU (VW) enter the sport as Ferrari will be suppling Sauber, Manor & Hass already so could only supply Red Bull or Torro Rosso if Manor switch to Honda as being rumoured. So I see it as most likely that RB & TR stay with Renault until the contract runs out at the end of 2016.

We're talking about '16 so it's no and no. "Most likely that RB & TR stay with Renault until the contract runs out at the end of 2016." Only if Renault buys a team and stays with Merc. In that case I can't imagine them naming it Renault but weirder things happened in F1. Lotus surviving without Renault and staying in '16 with Merc is unlikely.

These various engine scenarios are one of the reasons these negotiations are taking so long. The other part is Lopez and his right to minimize the losses and Renault being cheap. Amus claims Lopez would be a silent partner with his 25% which:
- on one hand does not make sense: what's the point from either side, why not sell it all now? Unless it means only selling remaining part on different conditions in the future.
- on the other recent events make more sense, why should he care about a team he won't be running in any way next season.

[FW17]

What makes you think lopaz will have 25% of the team

I am not sure if he is currently the largest shareholder

[AnthonyG]

What makes you think lopaz will have 25% of the team

I am not sure if he is currently the largest shareholder

Genii capital?

[FW17]

What makes you think lopaz will have 25% of the team

I am not sure if he is currently the largest shareholder

Genii capital?

Lopez and Genii Capital partner Eric Lux did invest some money into the team but, by all accounts, British real estate developer Andrew Ruhan invested more and this resulted in Ruhan turning his loans into equity and taking control of the company, at the start of 2014. He then put his associate Matthew Carter in to run operations at Enstone and has funded the team ever since.

[Racer X]

Hulkenberg confirmed at Force India with a new 2 year deal.

Said all along he wouldn't go to Haas.

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/s ... e-india-f1

Sergio stating that' he might be announcing a new contract perhaps? Extending his current one?

He also says hes aware of the plans at Force India.
I wonder if it's more of the same we've seen; typical driver "next year's car will be great" *cheer for the team im in* nonsense . Or perhaps a new manufacturer. But I doubt it why would you drop Mercedes. Well let's wait and see but for now I looks like 2016 will have Sergio and Nico Hulk at Force India.

[iotar__]

Another twist? It's connected and involves many teams so I'll throw it here:
1. http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/red-b ... -but-over/ Red Bull's hopes of Mercedes deal are 'all but over'
2. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/120696 Red Bull won't use Renault engines in Formula 1 in 2016
3. http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/renau ... o-be-taken Renault explains why there's no decision yet.

First one: Obvious reason, competition for Merc and:

"Furthermore, there are worries about the potential brand damage should Red Bull ever complain that it was not getting equal treatment if it was beaten"

That's pretty funny from both sides, one: Renault situation, two: that's what Merc intended to do .
Second: self explanatory. Ferrari the only option if all true.
Third:

"From a governance perspective we have what it takes to take a very quick decision, assuming we have those conditions met."
"But this opportunity means we cannot bury our head or lose our temper on what looks like a good opportunity. It has to be much more than that. It has to be rock solid because we see if you do not have a proper plan in F1 you get completely crushed.
"If you look basically how money has been centralised; if we do not do the necessary today to be sure that we are within the right part of the grid, we know we have absolutely no chance to deliver what we want to deliver - which is being a top team contender. We have no interest to just participate."

It's directed at Ecclestone and other teams and it's a very simple explanation of current F1 system: predetermined results in favour of several teams and everyone else disadvantaged on every level starting with finances but also technical and sporting side. They don't want to invest and lose because of a huge head start for competition. They might leave (also suggested in the 2nd link).

[Schuttelberg]

I think Renault have nothing to lose over here. They've basically made up their mind and the ball is in Bernie's court. Fair play to them. They've not done a good job in the past two years but it's hardly the first time someone hasn't in F1. They did win 3 GP last year. I don't see what's in it for Renault to be honest. Specially the partnership with RB. If they win, it's their designers, engineers and drivers and if they lose it's bad press for Renault, some of which is justifiable. I still feel RB should have stuck at it with Renault, provided they were treated as the premiere team.

In this entire situation, the only thing that can lose out is the sport. I think F1 will lose if it loses Renault but I can't begin to think what will happen if RBR pull the plug. RBR's bad press for Renault has been very very exaggerated. Tough times happen in F1. The best ride through it. Renault was better than Ferrari in 2014 while Ferrari was better in 2015. I don't know how someone can assure that Renault won't come good again in a couple of years. A Mercedes/Ferrari/Honda engine will mean secondary treatment and why should it not?

I completely understand Mercedes position that they fear that if RBR lose, they might accuse Mercedes of inequality and give them bad press. Just look at the slack Renault has taken? If I were Mercedes, Ferrari or Honda I wouldn't be keen to supply to them. Then, the thought of the sport and the fans enters your mind and you begin to wonder..

Regardless, looks like a lot of F1 articles to read in the next week and a half or two!

[iotar__]

If Renault and Lotus leave:
- One Mercedes engine goes to Marussia as a Haas like stooge team
- Ferrari has Red Bull, Haas and Sauber
- Toro Rosso? Fourth Ferrari or one team gets '15 engine like Marussia this season?