Infiniti Red Bull Racing 2015

[Phil]

I think the potential inability for RedBull to get adequate engines is scary. Also, from the James Allen article, supposedly, Mercedes engines can now be ruled out definitely. This means it's either Ferrari or RedBull will potentially pull out with two teams, as I think there is an understanding that Renault will either continue as a works-team with the purchase of Lotus or not at all - as continuing as an engine supplier is apparently not an option.

If all goes wrong - that is, Renault fails to purchase Lotus and RedBull fails to either get or want engines from Ferrari, we could perhaps see quite an empty grid next year. It probably won't go that far, and publicly, Ferrari seems happy enough to supply RedBull and Torro-Rosso under the assumption that the contract with Renault can be successfully terminated.

I must say, I'm a bit disappointed that Mercedes will not supply RedBull. Understandable of course, entirely, but I would have loved to see how competitive such a RedBull could be. I know some here think Mercedes is a class of the field not only because of their engine, but also because of their chassis, but I still think RedBull has not lost it and are compromised precisely because they are dealing with an underpowered engine and are finding themselves outside their comfort-zone. Even with a Ferrari engine next year, things will be very interesting, at least, under the assumption that Ferrari can close that gap a bit more.

[alexx_88]

It seems almost unreal that any PU manufacturer who also runs their own team to accept Red Bull as a customer. Not just because they criticize their partners, but much more because of the risk of being beaten in a straight aero-fight by them. I fail to see the benefit of doing such thing, especially since RB will probably demand engine parity with the works team. I don't think Arrivabene would dig his own grave in this manner, he probably wants Ferrari to appear fearless and confident (as opposed to Mercedes), but he'll make sure that the deal doesn't go through in the end by forcing some unreasonable terms in the contract.

[FW17]

Finally we might see a Fiat, Chrysler, Alfa, Lancia or Maserati brand in F1

[dans79]

It seems almost unreal that any PU manufacturer who also runs their own team to accept Red Bull as a customer. Not just because they criticize their partners, but much more because of the risk of being beaten in a straight aero-fight by them.

I think It has a lot more to do with the constant criticism, and I don't just mean during the V6 Era. As far back as 2010 the team complained about lack of power.

[turbof1]

In all honesty, they are the only top team of the last decade to be in the position of being a customer team. Even mclaren was still treated on equal grounds when Mercedes decided back in 2010 to start their own team (of course, until last year). The relationship between partners -or a step higher just intern departments of the same identity- is vastly different then a customer-supplier relationship. As a customer your loyalty will by definition only reach as far as the best option on the market, and as supplier you are only looking for more revenue. Dumb down to a nutshell of course, but that's basically how far the relationship between renault and red bull extended. Has always extended.

[kptaylor]

Crappy source, but...

http://formulaspy.com/formula-1/formula ... eams-18140

It's odd that Mercedes Powertrains says "you have to know by May" when they dismiss Red Bull, but out of the other side of their mouth they're happy to supply Manor who wouldn't threaten them... Yes, the manufacturer shouldn't undercut their own works team, but there should be some separation or committee to view powertrain deals apart from favoritism. After all, it is a business and the powertrain unit wants to make money, too. I think I'd feel more assured getting paid by Red Bull than gambling Manor can come up with funds!

[alexx_88]

The 20 million they'd get from RB is peanuts money compared to how much money they lose from marketing if the headlines are "Redbull wins!" instead of "Mercedes wins!". Normal publications, which the average Joe reads, don't even mention the engine manufacturer normally.

[motobaleno]

Finally we might see a Fiat, Chrysler, Alfa, Lancia or Maserati brand in F1

This will not happen since FCA is going to spin off Ferrari that will be quoted at the New York Stock exchange as a new independent company.

[turbof1]

The 20 million they'd get from RB is peanuts money compared to how much money they lose from marketing if the headlines are "Redbull wins!" instead of "Mercedes wins!". Normal publications, which the average Joe reads, don't even mention the engine manufacturer normally.

Not to mention that Mercedes is sponsored by the Coca Cola Company with the Monster Brand; I've heard from sources the partnership is very lucrative for Mercedes. Since Red Bull is a direct competitor on both the energy drinks market AND in the sports branding as a whole, Coca Cola Company (I'm calling it this way specifically because most people don't know coca cola consist out of several, independent identities!) would not be happy to have less distinction from Red Bull.

[lio007]

Dr. Marko on the current situation: http://www.speedweek.com/formel1/news/8 ... cedes.html

on the contract with Renault:
there will be a meeting before or in singapore with Renault to discuss contract, exit etc. and finally find solutions for this topics

on Mercedes:
talks ended before they discussed details

on Toro Rosso:
both teams should have the same engine supplier, because of synergies within Red Bull

on Ferrari as supplier and deadlines for next years car:
RBR as a big team is not so much under pressure, but the situation at Toro Rosso is different. So, the earlier a decision is made the better it is.

on Ferrari as an interim solution and plans to become a worksteam in the future:
First of all for them it is a first step to get a competitive PU, to attend the championship without a handicap. The next steps for their future will be discussed, when they have secured an engine for the near future.

[Jonnycraig]

For what it's worth, Autosport believe RB & TR will end up running the 2015 Ferrari engine (Monza spec) whilst Ferrari run their newer engines.

[Juzh]

expected

[WaikeCU]

So that means Red Bull would still be on the backfoot compared to the frontrunners Mercedes and Ferrari?

[GPR-A duplicate2]

This makes me wonder if the model of Constructor, Factory Team and Customer teams is the right model. It has now been established that, there is no way a customer team can beat a factory team because of the second rate PU that they are going to get from the Constructor. Honda's failure would drive away any potential Constructor from F1, which means, Red Bull might never succeed in bringing any new Constructor who can help them become a Factory team. It also means, reducing tokens over the next few years would also limit other Constructors' ability to, let alone beating, even coming near the performance of Mercedes.

By choosing to not provide the PU to Red Bull, Mercedes in a way have already dug their own grave for this specification of PU. Next year, they will continue to beat the field and Ferrari scrapping behind, which would turn off F1 as a brand. If licking the Mercedes diffuser in every race is acceptable to Ferrari, then F1 would die an instant death as a competitive racing series. If in any which way Ferrari is optimistic of beating Mercedes in this PU era, they are foolishly dreaming. Unless Ferrari vote for a formula change, there is no way to stop Mercedes from continuing to dominate.

An established multiple champions team like Red Bull getting second rate PU is an absolute shame on F1. It's a clear template that a customer team would always remain an uncompetitive one forever.

It is grossly wrong on Mercedes part to deny a PU to Red Bull, only to stop competition and greed to get cheap championships, without any challengers. I don't think other factors like the handling of Red Bull's Renault affair is something that is guaranteed to happen with Mercedes. I am sure they get decent legal experts to prepare a far tighter professional binding for Red Bull.

And finally, Toto and Niki should stop the BS of continuing to talk about how competitive F1 is and behaving like guardian angels of F1. Now I agree with Bernie that, Toto is responsible for the death of F1.

[Jonnycraig]

So that means Red Bull would still be on the backfoot compared to the frontrunners Mercedes and Ferrari?

They are not a constructor, so they will always be on the back foot.