Infiniti Red Bull Racing 2015

[wickedz50]

Agree to Phil above, wondering how strong that RB chassis and the aero is ? even with a under power engine they are able to come close to other teams and beat them sometimes significantly in 2014 and 2015.

[FoxHound]

That's plain PR then.

This is all pretty off-topic

Not being a pedant, but this involves 3 entities of the threads protagonists. We're pretty much done on the subject of Infiniti's involvement anyhow. It is PR. The end.

I'm actually quite certain that that RedBull with a Mercedes or a Ferrari unit from 2010-2013 would have been ahead of other teams too. So the engine is probably rather insignificant (but not entirely due to the unique engine-maps).

We cannot ascertain this either way. But I can guarantee you, Mercedes or Ferrari supplying Red Bull will never have matched Renault in terms of support for the team. Never.

The sport may have hurt itself by introducing a complicated token system (to avoid high costs that would be passed over to the customer teams who could not afford such engines) - but lets not forget; They all signed up for these rules. Every one of them knew what the rules were and accepted it.

We can discuss this on the "engine crisis thread", as what you have mentioned has been addressed. Suffice to say I do agree with the last bit of "they all signed up to it".

[Phil]

Not a fan of TJ13, but sometimes he gets it right. Sometimes.
I think he is wayyyyy off the mark on this one, but he is proposing Renault could be about to purchase Red Bull.

Interesting... Though I hope not. I think I'd rather see Renault leave the sport than RedBull. RedBull has brought a lot of money and competitiveness into the sport. Manufacturers have a bad trend of throwing in the towel when it doesn't suit them, and with them, a lot of money. And for them, it's more of a PR exercise. Look at BMW. At Honda in 2008.

[FoxHound]

Not a fan of TJ13, but sometimes he gets it right. Sometimes.
I think he is wayyyyy off the mark on this one, but he is proposing Renault could be about to purchase Red Bull.

Interesting... Though I hope not. I think I'd rather see Renault leave the sport than RedBull. RedBull has brought a lot of money and competitiveness into the sport. Manufacturers have a bad trend of throwing in the towel when it doesn't suit them, and with them, a lot of money. And for them, it's more of a PR exercise. Look at BMW. At Honda in 2008.

I don't agree. Everyone is in it for the PR, you could argue Red Bull even more so.
At least there is lineage from Renault's F1 participation to their actual bread and butter...engines and previously complete cars.
Lest we also forget that Renault have won more than Red Bull by fact of powering Red Bull, and also that they can trace their F1 roots to the 70s right through to today. Over 38 years of near unbroken involvement in F1.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renault_in_Formula_One

And then there's this...



It is my view you do Renault a disservice mate.

[Phil]

I didn't mean to. I was saying it because I am looking at the trends. Big manufacturers leave big voids when they leave. That also includes RedBull, yes. But RedBull is pretty healthy from what I can see, as you yourself have argued when talking down their investment if they were to build their own engine (I don't agree on those points btw - I do however agree that they do have lots of money). For Renault... well, not so I think. They have a board to convince and they've already given up one team before (Enstone). Heritage is a great thing, but I'm purely looking at F1 now and today and at what void they'd leave behind. Renault is already a step out - and most teams they are supplying with their engine right now aren't very happy. The other left for Mercedes engines into this season and as a result has become much more competitive.

Renault doesn't want to supply engines anymore, they want a team (they said so). And I'm doubtful how competitive that team will be. I'd rather see RedBull get a competitive engine, stay in the sport to sell us more energy drinks. This is what RedBull wants too. To be competitive by their own doing (chassis/aero), not limited or handicapped by a severly uncompetitive engine.

I think it's much more guaranteed to have another successfull f1 team in the sport when RedBull stays vs. RedBull leave and Renault takes over. Who says they will commit even if they remain uncompetitive? Who will they blame if it's their own team? Nah, they'll just leave like many other manufacturers before them and leave an even greater void to fill.

[r101]

Some speculation from BBC:

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/formula1/34297046

[RicME85]

Article on BBC Sport saying VW are buying Red Bull, will takeover the team and build their own engine but that would not be seen until 2018, up to then its Ferrari engines.

[FoxHound]

But Renault have participated as either a supplier or factory team for nearly 36 of the last 38 years. Where does this fit in with your assessment that manufacturers up sticks when they choose?
That may be true of most manufacturers but not all.

There is also the small case of Red Bull threatening to quit and the much mooted palming off of Torro Rosso.

I can't ever recall Williams or Mclaren going to those lengths despite their greater history in the sport and their issues over the years with engine supply.

[a1b2i3r45]

Article on BBC Sport saying VW are buying Red Bull, will takeover the team and build their own engine but that would not be seen until 2018, up to then its Ferrari engines.

If that happens (more like when) 2 of the big three of germany will go head to head, well thats the dream for the petrol-heads
& also alonso may will be lobbying hard for a seat in there

[NathanOlder]

VW vs Merc in F1 and Porsche vs Audi in WEC. good times ahead.

[ScottB]

Article on BBC Sport saying VW are buying Red Bull, will takeover the team and build their own engine but that would not be seen until 2018, up to then its Ferrari engines.

If that happens (more like when) 2 of the big three of germany will go head to head, well thats the dream for the petrol-heads
& also alonso may will be lobbying hard for a seat in there

Alonso will be 37 in 2018, I'd wager he'll be retired by then, even Lewis might be gone by then (34). Vettel might still be around (31), but I'd imagine it'll be one of the young guys that are around at the moment, assuming some of them prove themselves top level... Verstappen?

[basti313]

Incredible performance this weekend...I think everybody now gets why RedBull is complaining so badly about the Renault engine.
This performance will make it hard for RedBull to find new engine, as it shows that they would compete for WC with a Merc or Ferrari engine.

[Shakeman]

Looking at the increasing scale of the VW emissions furore I wonder if this will scupper VW's entry into F1?

11 million cars world wide affected so far, massive fines and cost of putting things right are not going to be cheap...

I hope not because F1 needs manufacturers and the RB team.

[McG]

I'll be a bit brutal here and say that maybe Ferrari will knock red Bull back for engines. Red Bull quit because they have no engine, maybe not forever as VW might come in and buy them, learning from others mistakes. Ferrari wins.

With the new lower prices for engines coming, if Ferrari can't or won't veto it, the above could be an aggressive strategy from Ferrari. I'm sure no one wants to supply their engine for half price or a big discount to a competitor. I believe Merc knocked them back in hope of something like this happening.

[KeiKo403]

Aren't Red Bull signed up (Concorde agreement) until 2020? They put in the request to Renault did they not to terminate their contract an then they go demanding the details of any deal or else they'll quit the sport? How does that work exactly?