2015 Singapore Grand Prix - 18-20 September

[wickedz50]

Merc is so obviously sandbagging...Alonso as fast as Rosberg

This is really funny, McLaren have finally caught up with the Merc! Big headline news =D>

[wickedz50]

Probably pressures and camber, ridicleous levels set by Pirelli. Maybe Ferrari knew it would hurt Merc more and pushed their Italien friends for it.

Need more data on the tyre pressure and more evidence to understand the effect before concluding that tyre pressure is affecting Merc. If this is the case there will be further investigation on past results and lot of questions for Pirelli.

[SiLo]

It just doesn't make sense. from being almost 1s faster to being almost 1s slower. Did they really lose that much pace in a few weeks? They were streets ahead in Monaco... Could it simply just be tires?

[GPR-A duplicate2]

Tyres, shouldn't be a problem for Mercs as they have run them in Monaco, Canada and Austria. Neither is Singapore anything new to them or is too unique from other circuits on the calendar. My feeling is that, the new Motor, although has shown more power, probably has some vulnerabilities. They are probably trying to put as little pressure on the new motors as possible, especially under the intense heat of Singapore. Nico is already on his 4th PU and the guys are probably being too cautioned about Lewis too. Nico need to take this PU for another 7 races, without incurring penalty. We might see this as a pattern for the rest of the year.

For some stats, in Hungary (as similarly downforce dependent), after FP3, Vettel was ahead of Kvyat by 3 tenths and here, he is ahead by 4 tenths (close to 5 tenths, could be attributed to slightly more powerful PU). Lewis was 9 tenths ahead of Vettel in Hungary and here Alonso is 0.018 behind Nico! So that tell me that Mercs are cautious on the motors.

[Jordan44]

Tyres, shouldn't be a problem for Mercs as they have run them in Monaco, Canada and Austria. Neither is Singapore anything new to them or is too unique from other circuits on the calendar. My feeling is that, the new Motor, although has shown more power, probably has some vulnerabilities. They are probably trying to put as little pressure on the new motors as possible, especially under the intense heat of Singapore. Nico is already on his 4th PU and the guys are probably being too cautioned about Lewis too. Nico need to take this PU for another 7 races, without incurring penalty. We might see this as a pattern for the rest of the year.

For some stats, in Hungary (as similarly downforce dependent), after FP3, Vettel was ahead of Kvyat by 3 tenths and here, he is ahead by 4 tenths (close to 5 tenths, could be attributed to slightly more powerful PU). Lewis was 9 tenths ahead of Vettel in Hungary and here Alonso is 0.018 behind Nico! So that tell me that Mercs are cautious on the motors.

I don't agree, I think we'll be shocked to find it's their genuine pace. Paddy Lowe's facial expressiosn after practise said it all. I believe for the following reasons:
- I question whether anyone is better than Vettel around this circuit.
- Tyre pressures rules means the teams are still learning exactly how to approach this, and this circuit is definitely about tyre management.
- Mercedes weren't running their qualifying mode and engines slightly detuned, which should allow them to overcome Red Bull in qualifying at least.
- Their chassis was the best in Monaco, but since then they have been out-developed by Red Bull and Ferrari.
- Like Sky picked up in Hungary, the Mercedes suspension setup doesn't allow it to ride the bumps very well, which is needed for good direction change here.

[mikeerfol]

https://twitter.com/tgruener/status/645199477498753024

[Jordan44]

New PSI rules implemented and Mercedes slower over a lap and more degradation over a stint as well.

The cynic in me expects to see them 'accidentally' under-inflate in qualifying, be on pole by a second and again be let off..

Rubbish. A few PSI isn't responsible for that pace difference and degradation. It's simply because we're at Singapore, a track where cornering speed matters and top speeds don't so much. Their engine advantage is negated here.

Secondly Mercedes were never let off, they never broke the rules. Have a little read of the final report.

, no it is most certainly a case of the 10+ traction zones here limiting them. Your engine doesn't give you higher degradation than your rivals.

I think you'll find it does. If you run your engine higher than it needs to be on a circuit all about traction, it puts more unnecessary load through the tyres which destroys them. There's a fine balance, Mark Hughes said as much on Sky on Friday.

[Juzh]

A lot of them.

[f1316]

As has been said, Martin Brundle predicted in Hungary that Mercedes wouldn't be so good here because of how it rides the bumps .

Saying that, the amus tweet says customer cars similarly affected. Why, if it's suspension related? Sounds as if the engine hypothesis could also be relevant.

Let's not also forget that it was similar last year- qualifying unusually close. Perhaps it's just an anomalous track?

[Juzh]

[tranquility2k4]

It just doesn't make sense. from being almost 1s faster to being almost 1s slower. Did they really lose that much pace in a few weeks? They were streets ahead in Monaco... Could it simply just be tires?

Strangely last year they were only on pole by less than 2 tenths from RB and 3 tenths from Ferrari. Then in the race Hamilton was way quicker and clawed back about 27 seconds to get the gap require to win the race, so they didn't work their tyres last year, although from memory that was more an issue with super-soft. On soft they were ok I think.

In 3rd practice they were slow on both soft and super-soft. They were 4 - 5 tenths slower than their time set yesterday. Whereas RB were the same as yesterday and Ferrari much quicker. Merc were a bit slower in FP3 compared with FP2 in Monza, but in most past races they improve in FP3, sometimes by quite a lot. I wonder if since they introduced this new engine, they are running it more conservatively in FP3, however, that still only accounts for say a few tenths.

To me it must be tyre temperatures - that could be influenced by camber and pressures, but could just be track and air temperature specific. What surprises me with the Merc is how they can make changes between sessions that can wreck the car. Look at Rosberg yesterday, he said he changed setup between FP1 and FP2 and it didn't work and he was miles off the pace, especially in long-runs. This has happened on many occasions, e.g. Hamilton has been poor in FP2 and then come back very strong in FP3. It's almost as athough they have something significant they can change with the suspension between sessions but once it's set they cannot go back.

My thinking is they thought in FP2 they were not getting the tyres working in lower air temperatures - due to overheating (hence high deg), or possibly due to not heating them enough. They have made changes in this regard that have put them right out the window in FP3, but it may come back to them in qualifying. I honestly imagine they are a bit lost and it may just be down to luck as to whether they get in the correct window. There's no way this car is 1 second off anything on any track unless they are simply not working their tyres. The car visibly does not look connected on the road, the drivability looks horrible, which must be tyre temps.

[tranquility2k4]

As has been said, Martin Brundle predicted in Hungary that Mercedes wouldn't be so good here because of how it rides the bumps .

Saying that, the amus tweet says customer cars similarly affected. Why, if it's suspension related? Sounds as if the engine hypothesis could also be relevant.

Let's not also forget that it was similar last year- qualifying unusually close. Perhaps it's just an anomalous track?

I think Merc not riding bumps well is absolute rubbish! The amount of times I have heard commentators, e.g. David Couthard on the BBC say how well Merc rides bumps - this has been a great trait of their car for years, hence why they're always so good around Monaco.

[Jordan44]

As has been said, Martin Brundle predicted in Hungary that Mercedes wouldn't be so good here because of how it rides the bumps .

Saying that, the amus tweet says customer cars similarly affected. Why, if it's suspension related? Sounds as if the engine hypothesis could also be relevant.

Let's not also forget that it was similar last year- qualifying unusually close. Perhaps it's just an anomalous track?

It could be a combination of the way the Mercedes engine works it's tyres and the new pressure directive all the teams are required to follow, and the fact that their engine is the most powerful, when it doesn't necessarily need to be around here, which is causing higher degredation.

[matt_b]

It is just one of those bizzare tracks, Mercedes were 3rd and 6th in last years FP3 then it was tight in qualifying. Normality will resume from Suzuka but for this weekend Ferrari and Red Bull can have some fun at the front.

[ringo]

I wonder if their turbine size is an issue. They are probably using more electrical energy to spool up the turbo in low speed conditions than the other engines. Meaning less electic energy for kers. It may be more than the tyres imo.