Infiniti Red Bull Racing 2015

[Cold Fussion]

If they are able to terminate their Renault contract and Ferrari refuses supply, then Red Bull's problem becomes a massive problem for Bernie as well.

[FW17]

I think the announcement was directed more at the FIA and FOM with regard to homologation for next year.

At the moment an engine manufacturer can have only one homologated unit racing for the 2016 season. Ferrari and Merc want this differed so that Customer teams can have a older spec while Works team run a the latest spec. Renault and Honda want the homologation date removed so that they can continue to develop the engine through the season.

Red Bull want the engine to be homologated as per the Feb 16 date so that it would give the at least an equal footing with Ferrari on the Hardware while the software and fuel will still put them on the back foot.

But I am sure Red Bull will have access to some portion of the engine map to integrate with their breaking philosophy and will be using this back door to rewrite the maps for maximum power possible.

However fuel is still going to be a differentiator. And RBR strategy would be for pushing for the standard F1 Fuel Tender which was discussed by WMSC Sept 2013 once the Ferrari Deal is done so that the fuel disadvantage is also removed.

[mclaren111]

In an editorial on its own website, Speedweek, though no direct quotes are carried, it is made clear that Red Bull is insisting on receiving the same engines as Ferrari's works team or it leaves the sport.

JUST LEAVE ALREADY !!!!

[Phil]

yes, they should just leave. The sport only needs Mercedes, Ferrari and Renault. Oh wait, they might leave too. Honda then. Err. Hold on, they are at the back - do we even get to see them on TV?

[bauc]

In an editorial on its own website, Speedweek, though no direct quotes are carried, it is made clear that Red Bull is insisting on receiving the same engines as Ferrari's works team or it leaves the sport.

JUST LEAVE ALREADY !!!!

Red Bull is in no position to set ultimatums to F1, Ferrari or any other party involved in the sport. They just can't accept to not be on the top, but this is Formula 1 and you cant win all of the time. What should teams like Ferrari, Mclaren or Williams say for the years they spend without results?!. There were times when Ferrari was out of the game completely, look at Mclaren now or Williams before this new engine era....its almost the same. They need to accept the outcome and just leave, or they should take the long road (like Mclaren with Honda) and work hard with their engine partner to get back on top.

[Thunder]

True, and that's exactly why i think RB will pull out of the Sport sooner or later anyways. For DM F1 is just a marketing tool. If he doesn't win he makes less Money.

For me the best thing Red Bull could do is to become the F1 Series Sponsor and have nothing to do with the Racing itself. They are brilliant at Marketing, let them make F1 the Spectacle it deserves to be.

[santos]

True, and that's exactly why i think RB will pull out of the Sport sooner or later anyways. For DM F1 is just a marketing tool. If he doesn't win he makes less Money.

For me the best thing Red Bull could do is to become the F1 Series Sponsor and have nothing to do with the Racing itself. They are brilliant at Marketing, let them make F1 the Spectacle it deserves to be.

That's a brilliant idea... but if they leave, there will be less 4 cars on the grid. RB is in the sport for the marketing, and they need results to justify the investment. They are not like Ferrari, Williams or Mclaren... those teams are on the F1 because it's their business. The business of RB are cans.

[bauc]

True, and that's exactly why i think RB will pull out of the Sport sooner or later anyways. For DM F1 is just a marketing tool. If he doesn't win he makes less Money.

For me the best thing Red Bull could do is to become the F1 Series Sponsor and have nothing to do with the Racing itself. They are brilliant at Marketing, let them make F1 the Spectacle it deserves to be.

That's a brilliant idea... but if they leave, there will be less 4 cars on the grid. RB is in the sport for the marketing, and they need results to justify the investment. They are not like Ferrari, Williams or Mclaren... those teams are on the F1 because it's their business. The business of RB are cans.

Even if that is the case, they need to accept the fact that they cant win all of the time, and for certain they are not in a position to make any ultimatums whatsoever. As for the less cars on the grid, well... we have a new team coming next year so it will be only -2 cars on the grid. It will be ugly but it will work and F1 will survive without the ''cans''

[Phil]

Even if that is the case, they need to accept the fact that they cant win all of the time

There's a difference in

- not accepting not winning due to self-inflicted short-comings
- not being able to be competitive due to receiving an inadequate engine

Who in their right mind would want to join a sport that makes it impossible to win due to regulations?

Fact is, to win you need a competitive engine. To get a competitive engine, you either get one that already is or you need regulations that allow noncompetitive engines to become competitive. The concept really isn't that difficult to understand.

I'm growing a little tired of the inability to understand why RedBull should pump millions into F1 and its chassis/aero development when it can't achieve anything with it as long as the engine in the back of the car is the biggest performance differentiator. It's a real issue the sport needs to address. The only problem with the sport and its fans, it seems, is if it actually is a midfield team who is running an inadequate engines, no one cares, but if it's a top team like RedBull they should be happy with it or we should point to short-comings in their chassis whilst ignoring the giant pink elephant in the room?

[dobbster71]

RBR is acting like a petulant child here; trying to use "pester power" to get what they want!

If they are demanding a top power unit why don't they go ahead & develop one?

[Jonnycraig]

Bernie now says that Ferrari are 'scared' to give RB it's most powerful engines.

Embarrassing from BE and incredibly desperate too.

The simple answer of course is for Ferrari to give RB their newest engines, and RB to give Ferrari all their aero and chassis data....

[bauc]

@Phill, I agree that the main problem here is the lack of development freedom in order for the PU manufactures to catch up, but that does not mean they(Red Bull) should go out with all guns blazing. They need to learn that in F1, if you want to win you need to play the long game, in fact they are the one team who did just that when they acquired Jaguar F1 team and turn it around into a multiple championship winning team within few years and now all of the sudden they cry and blame everybody else and set ultimatums to Ferrari & F1 management just coz they cant win a race? Again they should just quit and let the other teams fight like they've done for decades before RedBull.

[Alexgtt]

RB's attitude with Renault has been their biggest mistake imo. What's wrong with sitting out 2016 with Renault, giving them full partnership respect/support and taking great kudos for developing a fabulous chassis/aero package that is clearly on show at tracks like Singapore? RB are totally mad from a PR perspective. Chances are Renault will greatly improve through 2016 and who know's what the 2017 engine regs will do to the relative performances. Either way RB sit tight, look more professional and have all the options for 2017, be that VW, Renault, Ferrari and who knows........................maybe even the Honda becomes the engine of choice??

[FW17]

RB's attitude with Renault has been their biggest mistake imo. What's wrong with sitting out 2016 with Renault, giving them full partnership respect/support and taking great kudos for developing a fabulous chassis/aero package that is clearly on show at tracks like Singapore? RB are totally mad from a PR perspective. Chances are Renault will greatly improve through 2016 and who know's what the 2017 engine regs will do to the relative performances. Either way RB sit tight, look more professional and have all the options for 2017, be that VW, Renault, Ferrari and who knows........................maybe even the Honda becomes the engine of choice??

How do you expect an engine to improve its performance without the budget to support its improvement. So many man hours are required on the Renault engine to bring it up to the level of a Ferrari engine, if the man hours are not being spent how does one improve?

[Phil]

@Phill, I agree that the main problem here is the lack of development freedom in order for the PU manufactures to catch up, but that does not mean they(Red Bull) should go out with all guns blazing. They need to learn that in F1, if you want to win you need to play the long game

The long game is irrelevant when a team needs to define a budget (that is already set by the number of employees you have and want to keep) and realized that it makes absolute ZERO difference because the major problem is not the chassis, but an engine that isn't competitive and can't be made competitive. Again; Why should RedBull stay and invest millions if it knows it can't fight anywhere near where they should be because of they can't get a competitive engine?

They might as well pack up and leave a big void because anything other than that makes little sense from a business perspective. Also, comparing this to their post-Jaguar days is very different - RedBull got to where they are because they had the money and expertise and know-how to do so. They weren't limited by regulations or a "handicapped" factor that can't be changed.

It's a bit like being forced to be the only team to run on crap tires vs the competition with tires that work. No matter how good your chassis is, you won't be competitive, so why stay in this sport or invest these millions to attract and keep the worlds best aero engineers if that isn't relevant in the slightest?

I'm not making up excuses for RedBull, I'm just saying why from their perspective, they have every right to voice their concerns, act stupid and try to get what they want [a competitive engine]. And if you feel they won't leave a void if they leave, think again. F1 is already struggling as it is - as I said, we have quite a few midfield teams that have become backmarkers and are not competitive - and don't have any hope to ever be competitive, but the sport simply doesn't talk about them because they either don't care, they're not interested in them (the generic f1 is only interested in who wins the race, as evident by most race topics here and the criticism towards the all so dominant Mercedes) etc. For these teams, it's about survival too. The topic goes much further than simply Red Bull Racing.