[KVRC ~ish] CCE LMP01

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machin
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Re: [KVRC ~ish] CCE LMP01

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As well as moving the floor leading edge back what about the actual shape of the leading edge... Presumably a nice rounded leading edge would be best to promote smooth flow under the car?
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RicME85
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Re: [KVRC ~ish] CCE LMP01

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Some excellent chat going on from this =D>

Chris has replied to my email, here are the official results from race 3:

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LVDH
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Re: [KVRC ~ish] CCE LMP01

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machin wrote:As well as moving the floor leading edge back what about the actual shape of the leading edge... Presumably a nice rounded leading edge would be best to promote smooth flow under the car?
That leading edge does seem to affect downforce, yes.
But I cannot explain how. I tried different variants at some point and just used the best one.
Maybe someone else knows more.

But before starting to improve that part he should first work on the list of big suggestions he has now.

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RicME85
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Re: [KVRC ~ish] CCE LMP01

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With regards to the diffuser, I have tried using the Jordan idea:

Image

I have also studied the cross section of Variante's car and have produced a similar diffuser.

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machin
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Re: [KVRC ~ish] CCE LMP01

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RicME85 wrote:Some excellent chat going on from this =D>

Chris has replied to my email, here are the official results from race 3:

http://i.imgur.com/645N8Z8.png

http://i.imgur.com/cKU3t5P.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/29KlDHH.jpg
I just ran the numbers and the new car is faster around Magny Cours than the old car, so we've definitely made an improvement even though it is not immediately clear from the raw numbers...

As LVDH says, best move now is to make the modifications suggested above and re-test... as I said before: don't change too much in one go or it'll be less clear where the improvements have come from....
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MadMatt
MadMatt
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Re: [KVRC ~ish] CCE LMP01

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LVDH wrote:
MadMatt wrote:I think an issue with the diffuser is that there is too little amount of airflow reaching it, due to the front wing being too close to the road. I am sure if you raise the front wing a bit you will enhance the diffuser. This is why I said the diffuser angle is too aggressive. Such shape would work if there was more airflow to it, so I would either make it less aggressive, or raise the front wing :)
No way keep the front wing as low as possible. Esp. because you have to get more front downforce. One easy fix will be to have the sections infront of the front wheels flat (and as low as possible).
I think it is not as simple as that. In the ground effect area, having a front wing effectively killed airflow to the underbody, and therefore killing downforce (or suction, depeding on how you call it). We don't have an airfoil-type underbody here, but we have a diffuser which is what an airfoil shaped underbody is basically. Try to remove the front wing and you will increase the suction at the diffuser. I don't think this can be questioned, or?

However, it is true that he is lacking front downforce, so by raising the front wing he will most probably lose ground effect on the front wing.

As I said, to improve the diffuser's efficiency, I would either make the diffuser less aggressive, or raise the front wing. Modifications that can easily and quickly be tested by RicME. You can even send me the files and I can simulate them on my computer if it saves you money from using amazon server. With regards to improve front end downforce, Machin posted some solutions to try as well.

Machin is spot on with modifications tho. Try 1 thing at a time! :)

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machin
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Re: [KVRC ~ish] CCE LMP01

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... And post the results!
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RicME85
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Re: [KVRC ~ish] CCE LMP01

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Matt - that would be great, would could get twice as much done for the purpose of the thread and future members. Could you PM your email address?

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RicME85
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Re: [KVRC ~ish] CCE LMP01

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Right, just looking into the changes now and stumbled across an issue straight away.
Looking at the shape and idea given by Machin:
Image

With the current position of the suspension template this shape would intrude on the visibility template. I usually have the suspension template as high as possible so there is lots of space underneath for air flow, as can be seen on the image I posted with the streamlines coming through the front and exiting the side.

Should I stick with the proposed shape and drop the suspension by 100mm so the cover fits up to the underside of the visibility template or should we look at another solution? As it stands there is only 20mm between the top of the current cover and the visibility template.

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machin
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Re: [KVRC ~ish] CCE LMP01

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Can you get away with a flat upper surface? (i.e. Little to no inclination)... Also the leading edge shape on my sketch is crap... Should be much smoother/rounded!

This is exactly the sort of question that is best answered by trying multiple options in CFD though... You can see why real teams spend a lot of time doing CFD!
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RicME85
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Re: [KVRC ~ish] CCE LMP01

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Oh yeah definitely, problem is it will get pricey on AWS and I use my PC for in-home streaming and gaming so running OCCFD isnt really an option.

I can have the top of the cover flat or I could incline it so the trailing edge is 20mm higher than the front so to use the max available height.

The issue was just with the second half of your sketch where the uppe surface goes up from about half way, that encroaches on the visibility template after a short distance.

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machin
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Re: [KVRC ~ish] CCE LMP01

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To be honest I don't think anyone here could definitively say which is better... We could all have a guess... Maybe dropping the suspension a little (50mm?) and having some inclination to the upper surface of the fairing would be a good compromise... But... It is difficult to know for sure.... Without doubt everyone in the KVRC (and real teams) would like to investigate every little detail, but in most cases it is just a case of trying whichever you think would be best and seeing the result...
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RicME85
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Re: [KVRC ~ish] CCE LMP01

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I'm going to go for keeping the suspension high I think as the tub helps hide a lot of the suspension template. If I lower it then you have to contend with the suspensions template getting wider, it wouldnt be possible to extrude a shape directly across between wheel and tub, you would have to create a variable shape which then would no doubt bring about more questions.

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machin
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Re: [KVRC ~ish] CCE LMP01

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Probably a good way ahead.. we're probably never going to eliminate the low pressure over the fairing completely because the flow off the front wing is directing the air up and over the leading edge, so its inevitable that it will flow around the leading edge creating low pressure right around the front/top.... but flattening it out and inclining it a little will help....

Image

However, at the very least shaping the underside to promote low pressure should counteract the upper surface low pressure... at the moment its not generating any low pressure (see below)... I suspect again because of the upwash from the front wing...

Image
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machin
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Re: [KVRC ~ish] CCE LMP01

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.. and remember to adjust the angle of attack of that front wing element at the same time... might as well run those changes in the same simulation even if we did say "make one change at a time" before....