Espionage at Ferrari and McLaren

[mcdenife]

Scarbs wrote

The ex ferrari enginners brought some old windtunnel software with them, not the full designs for the Ferrari. This case was dealt with adequately by the italian authorities. The current case involves CURRENT Ferrari staff providing current data to McLaren, which is not the same thing

I agree that this case is different. But only in the sense that a complaint was not made to the FIA (or at least thats what has been said). However, the fact that this is current data is not the issue.
You can still gain an advantage from old data/information if you did not already have or know said info. If anything, its is worse if the software in question is Ferrari' propriety software, you can hardly get more 'IP' than that.
This could have been dealt with by the civil courts (in the UK, Italy or both) without the damage to F1. Had this happened Mclaren may well have still been found guilty and fined.
Follow the money and you will have an idea why this approach was not taken.


An aside: I can forsee this argument being put forward by the FIA to detract from their incompetence in dealing the current case, to explain inconsistencies in their ruling/handling of future cases/complaints of this nature.

[monkeyboy1976]

Lots to read here but interesting to see how things work behind the scenes. F1 laid bare.

http://press.fiacommunications.com/wmsc ... 7-2007.pdf

http://press.fiacommunications.com/wmsc ... 9-2007.pdf

[Belatti]

Just a tiny comment:

Why don´t just replace the current Poll (What do you think about the punishment of McLaren?) with the current one?:

Are you a McLaren fan, a Ferrari fan or none?

Definitively a lack of objectiveness arround....

[checkered]

Lots to read here but interesting to see how things work behind the scenes. F1 laid bare.

http://press.fiacommunications.com/wmsc ... 7-2007.pdf

http://press.fiacommunications.com/wmsc ... 9-2007.pdf

I read the

transcript from the latter "extraordinary meeting", and I mean all of it. Some more or less forceful arguments from both sides, but having been without the privilege of access to the written submissions etc. from the teams (at least parts of which were restricted solely to WMSC members as they contained some very sensitive technical information) the discussion is, often at crucial times, somewhat hard to decipher. The minutes of WMSC's deliberations are of course not published. In all, the reasoning that was released soon after the decision remains a far more informative document when it comes to the factual grounds of what, in all, has transpired.

I think the "2011" proposals included relaxing some IP rights between the teams in F1, and within F1 applications alone. In light of the resources the teams seem to be putting on passive intelligence alone (something that was described rather extensively in the document and what, quite frankly, as "part of the game" I find quite a disheartening state of affairs), it's certainly time for a rethink on that regard. Having immensely talented people on year long gardening leaves is not sustainable. Having immensely talented people doing all sorts of analysis on other people's cars while they could be doing their own inventions is equally unsustainable. Having a situation wherein unsporting activities can yield equal benefits to sporting activities does nothing for the well being of F1.

There certainly is something for everybody in the documents. There's the human aspect. The instances when the two sides duel to find suitable euphemisms for different kinds of behaviour and things. How the legal representatives hover between mundane and formal expression in a situation that doesn't conform to the strict protocols in a court of law. How different agendae are pursued without once being referred to. And all of it is so very human, even if my initial overriding curiosity was how casually people are made to part with $100M. Interesting on many a level, I'm sure.

But racing it's not. The finest legal argumentation is a far cry from the tune of an F1 car peaking towards 19.000 rpm on 6th or 7th gear, climbing up Blanchimont or charging down the back stretch of Suzuka towards 130R.

[monkeyboy1976]

I guess there is some sort of closure on the issue now.
One thing that struck me was that Paddy Lowe insisted that a pile of documents detailling Ferrari cars and set-up would not be of any interest. While on the other hand, it's accepted that teams spend much resource on observation and data gathering of competitor cars at tests and races. There's something not quite right.
On the other hand, I can understand a need for him to distance himself from something so obviously dodgy at the time to prevent a legal battle such as he himself has just been involved in.
The discussios around Ferrari's flexible floor and all the other tit-for-tat whitsleblowing seems to be something that has underpinned all this. The 700-odd pages of info were an ideal chance for Ferrari to stick the knife in. Whether they should have done that and brought all this out in the open I am not sure. I wish they had not.
Anyhoo, we can now maybe get back to watching a thrilling championship conclusion which is about racing cars and racing drivers, not lawyers.
Alonso is for sure back to Renault next year and Lewis has the chance now to make McLaren his team completely for 2008. 2008 is really cooking up already.

[Fan Solo]

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/09/20 ... t_exposed/

Oh dear lol

[ben_watkins]

Yep... It all makes very interesting reading, I can tell you..

<--- FIA

[SoftBatch]

So what did it say??? Does anyone have the original copies??

Nevermind Temp folders are great.

[modbaraban]

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/09/20 ... t_exposed/

Oh dear lol

lmao! Max owes 100$ to Ferrari and McLaren now

[mx_tifoso]

I have a hunch that after all this feudiing, these two teams are going to combine and form a super Formula 1 team, named McLari.
That will dominate for decades to come.

[Rob W]

I...combine and form a super Formula 1 team, named McLari.

Until the WillBull team gets up to speed.

Rob W

[modbaraban]

comming soon..

[mx_tifoso]

comming soon..

[img]http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/40/t ... h4.jpg[img]

I was LMAO for a very long time, especially after reading all the smaller print in there.....

While nothing happens on the track, sh*t hits the fan in the cabinet...

Incredible mumbling by Raikkonen, chap deserves an Oscar

---------------
@Rob W,
Yeah, although probably nothing will change, as the Spondas will still be near the back, with Mercanello as an engine supplier.

[monkeyboy1976]

Excellent.

I think Manchild has some competition

[checkered]

comming soon..

Good job, I wouldn't

be surprised if that wound up framed on some FIA/F1 personalities' desks ... or being used as a poignant christmas card or something! For all the more serious stuff, there's a tradition of prankstership in Formula One, too.