Formula One's Engine Crisis

[Thunder]

It was mentioned on the Sky Live Coverage. But seems nothing is confirmed yet. https://twitter.com/tgruener/status/652394890844839936

[Cuky]

Ferrari confirm. No engines for RB.

Source?

If true all I can say is "What goes around comes around"

Guys from SkySports F1 were quoting AMuS on that one during FP1 broadcast

[bhall II]

Ferrari have decided against supplying Red Bull with engines for 2016, according to reports.

German publication Auto Motor und Sport claim that the Scuderia are only willing to provide engines to Red Bull's junior outfit Toro Rosso amid fears that the former world champions would be 'too strong' even if armed with a year-old set of V6 units.

The news, if accurate, would seemingly mean that Red Bull will leave F1 at the end of the season.

Dietrich Mateschitz, the owner of both Red Bull and Toro Rosso, has repeatedly warned since the start of season that he would withdraw from the sport unless his teams were given a 'competitive' supply of engines.

"I have to say that from talking, listening and watching l am more inclined more to think that Red Bull are going rather than staying," Sky F1 pundit Martin Brundle admitted on Friday morning.

Bernie Ecclestone, the F1 supremo, told reporters upon arriving in Sochi for this weekend's Russian GP that he was powerless to force Ferrari - who are already contracted to supply Haas and Sauber next year - to reach a deal with Red Bull.

"Ferrari boss Maurizio Arrivabene was in deep, deep conversation with Bernie Ecclestone, who has been trying behind the scenes to sort this almighty mess out because he doesn't want Red Bull to go," reported Sky F1's Ted Kravitz. "He understands that Mateschitz has had enough and wants to go. We asked Bernie and he said 'there is only so much I can do - I don't make engines. If I could I would give some to Red Bull'.

"Bernie can try to make that happen but if Ferrari say they won't do it - and that might be a positioning ploy or they might really mean it - where do they go?"

Divorce papers were served on their current suppliers, Renault, two months ago. Since then, Mercedes have formally rejected Red Bull's request for an engine supply while Honda, the only other engine suppliers on the grid, have an exclusive deal with McLaren for 2016.

"Unless the Renault contract has been declared null and void they still have a deal for next season," suggested Sky F1's David Croft. "For 2017 there's nothing in place, but as far as I know for 2016 there is that contract in place.

"So Red Bull could carry on with Renault engines or they could walk away. But it's quite hard to see them making up to the extent they can all be happy families again."

It was the inadequacies of Renault's engines, unchanged since the start of the year, which first gave rise to fears that Red Bull would leave F1 and team boss Christian Horner declared last week that he believed the French manufacturer to be "at least two to three years" behind Ferrari and Mercedes.

EDIT:

[Facts Only]

I think people are gloomingly assuming that if Red Bull leave then Team Milton Keynes will leave as well.

Team Enstone, Team Brackley, Team Banbury and Team Hinwii have all carried on. The team at MK have a much longer history then Red Bull Racing and Red Bull wont just mothball the place they will want some of their investment back, its still has a very high value as a running F1 concern.

Someone will buy it up, take it on the chin with substandard engines for next year and then rebuild the team for the 2017 rule changes.

Same goes for Torro Rosso, maybe a mangement buyout and at least it seems they have an offer for Ferrari engines.

I bet that even if Red Bull leave F1 both teams will be on the grid next year. Brawn GP, Sauber, Manor, Lotus all pulled through.

[Just_a_fan]

Lee McKenzie
BBC F1 pit-lane reporter
"When we were speaking to Christian Horner about 90 minutes ago he was meant to go on to the pitwall, he was taken into the Red Bull hospitality by Bernie Ecclestone and they have just finished talking. It was Christian, Helmut Marko and Bernie in a big meeting. When Bernie came back out he gave David a nod, a wink, and a thumbs up."

Suggests that some sort of deal is being done.

My own view is that Red Bull should suck it up - they need to understand that winning isn't a right. They had 4 top years and now they're getting a fallow period. That's racing for you. It sickens me to hear them, and especially Horner, moaning now; when they were winning and people suggested things should change they were agast at the idea. Well Christian, "what goes around, comes around".

[Jonnycraig]

Would imagine that BE will eventually wrangle them an up to date Merc engine. It's been said for a few weeks that Bernie is in discussions with Daimler head honchos and going way above the F1 managements paygrade.

Will put the F1 team in a tricky position as they will have to beat RB with the same engine which should provide some entertainment to F1 for the first time in a while.

I don't think many will shed any tears for Wolff & Lauda being made lame ducks.

[F1NAC]

What if Mateschitz buys Manor next year They would have Mercs 2016 package

[FW17]

What goes around comes around?

Same will apply to Merc and Ferrari too

[FoxHound]

What goes around comes around?

Same will apply to Merc and Ferrari too

Why?
Have either outed and obliterated a supplier for over a year and blamed them for not winning?
A supplier that was part of 8 titles in 4 years?

A supplier that was critical in their participation, that if they severed links without a back up supplier, they would hold F1 ransom with exit threats?

“We strive to get motors, but we get none — at least not the one we want,”

[toraabe]

They need to behave....

What if Mateschitz buys Manor next year They would have Mercs 2016 package

[FW17]

I did not realise "what goes around come around" is applicable only for bitching about sub standard engines

[FoxHound]

I did not realise "what goes around come around" is applicable only for bitching about sub standard engines

Please tell me where Ferrari or Mercedes are due to get "what goes around comes around" in relation to Red Bull then?
You seem to be name dropping for some reason or other, I wanted to know why.

I still do.

[Phil]

My own view is that Red Bull should suck it up - they need to understand that winning isn't a right.

Yes absolutely. They should concede that they are too good for their own good, so none of the (competitive) engine suppliers wants to supply them with a competitive engine. With Renault buying into Lotus and in the process of becoming its own works-team again, how sure can we be that they themselves wouldn't want to too, assuming they ever get to having a competitive engine?

Honda? Same problem. They are close partners with McLaren. If we assume they too build a competitive engine for 2016, who is to say McLaren would want to have Honda supply RedBull those same engines? Wasn't this the reason why they moved away from Mercedes - a competitive engine - to Honda in the first place? I'd be willing to bet that there are clauses in that partnership contract that gives some sort of exclusivity of that partnership for a couple of years.

If people can't see how this is bad for the sport and all those teams that don't have the ability to build their own engines or tie up with an engine manufacturer that isn't in F1 yet (like McLaren did with Honda), of which they are practically none remaining, they are seriously deluding themselves as of the state of F1 as a whole - e.g. beyond Mercedes, Ferrari and RedBull.

[Sevach]

Yeah, while they shouldn't have slagged Renault (even considering that Renault indeed "sucks"), the current we won't give you engines because we are "scared" is awful for F1.

Not to mention that Mercedes and Ferrari are pretty much proving the "you can't win the championship if you are not a factory team" mantra correct, with their police of keeping the best engines to themselves right now.

[Shakeman]

What if Mateschitz buys Manor next year They would have Mercs 2016 package

You can be your life that the contract between Merc and Manor rules out that scenario. Any sale of Manor would void the engine supply contract.