Infiniti Red Bull Racing 2015

[bhall II]

In the meanwhile it looks like Toro Rosso will continue with downtuned Ferrari engines into next year so cheers for that.

Tost has been put in his Place: https://twitter.com/tgruener/status/653919880794755072

So let me get this straight: right or wrong, real or not, both Mercedes and Ferrari have declined to supply power units to Red Bull due to a lack of capacity and poor timing...

“There's not even a discussion,” said Lauda. “No discussion at all. I haven't heard anything from them and we never talked about it. I have breakfast every morning with Helmut [Marko] so I should know.

“We never thought about it because we have four teams running our engines, so we don't even have capacity.”

"I am convinced that they were certain they would use the Mercedes engine in 2016," he said. "So much so that they not only reviewed (cancelled) the contract with Renault but also with Infiniti and Total."

But Mercedes said categorically no, and "Only then did they come looking for us", Arrivabene said.

"If they had done so in June, for example, there would still be time for us to look at it. But to come talking to us after Monza...

...and Red Bull counters with what's effectively a demand for twice the number of power units?

If it wasn't clear before, it should be completely obvious now that Red Bull is just working an exit strategy that permits them to cast blame on everyone but themselves.

[dans79]

To me that points clearly there is no certainty what we are discussing.

You can never have certainty with something as complex and convoluted as this, it's like trying to nail jello to the wall. You've got RBR, Ferrari, Merc, renault, & Bernie all putting their spin on it, and they all have different agendas.

[FoxHound]

If it wasn't clear before, it should be completely obvious now that Red Bull is just working an exit strategy that permits them to cast blame on everyone but themselves.

Clear as day, and has been for some time. My only hope is they reach the conclusion swiftly, as this has been played out like a Shakespearean tragedy, but without the eloquence or intellect.

[ChrisM40]

Well I think its clear to the public who the fault lays with.. No one but RB themselves. Dare I say they were never the most popular team, and now few will really miss them if they get replaced (by just about anyone).

[dans79]

Well I think its clear to the public who the fault lays with.. No one but RB themselves. Dare I say they were never the most popular team, and now few will really miss them if they get replaced (by just about anyone).

A James Allen pole, shows a large portion of people agree.
http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2015/10/d ... situation/

I feel sorry for the vast majority of the staff, because the issue really only lies with a few people at the top having personalty problems.

[Juzh]

Well I think its clear to the public who the fault lays with.. No one but RB themselves. Dare I say they were never the most popular team, and now few will really miss them if they get replaced (by just about anyone).

Caterham? HRT?

[zeph]

Well I think its clear to the public who the fault lays with.. No one but RB themselves. Dare I say they were never the most popular team, and now few will really miss them if they get replaced (by just about anyone).

A James Allen pole, shows a large portion of people agree.
http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2015/10/d ... situation/

I feel sorry for the vast majority of the staff, because the issue really only lies with a few people at the top having personalty problems.

This quote from the link you provided sums it up for me:

“It’s very hard to feel sorry for RedBull. While they have poured millions into F1 in the past few years, this has been to the detriment of F1 overall. They’ve blocked cost saving measures and wrecked FOTA, Just so that they can leverage the advantage they have (a massive budget) to win.

“Now the past 2 seasons they’re still spending the same budget, but can’t win, and so moan loudly and publicly. Yes Renault have badly messed up this year, but other manufacturers in the past have sorted this stuff out behind closed doors mostly.

“If cost caps had been implemented, along with a fairer distribution of revenues, the sport would be much healthier nowadays, and while some of the blame for that lies too with Ferrari, a fair chunk of it lies with RBR.

“DM is the Roman Abramovich of F1. I hope he either buys the whole shooting match, and runs it properly, or takes his ball and goes home. There’s no shortage of buyers for F1 teams and someone will snap up RB and TR should DM leave.
The only plus point I can see is RB’s young driver programme. Though if the sport was more equitable, then there would be more teams, and more race seats would also mean more young drivers getting to race on merit.

[djos]

First of all, I want to address a section of the people that have this tendency to put the hammer down on RBR by saying that they're only in F1 for their marketing gimmick. Well, if that's the case then thank god they're not serious about racing otherwise I can't begin to think how monotonous F1 would have been from 2010-13.

Secondly, there is obviously a huge sense of nostalgia and romance attached to teams like Ferrari, McLaren and Williams. The purists always prefer them because of men like Enzo Ferrari, Ron Dennis and Frank Williams. Men that did whatever they did to have enough money to race and win. Well, I'd like to say that that's in the past. Ferrari don't make sports cars to fund their racing team, instead they now use the racing team to sell more road cars. This is the 21st century and we must accept that priorities change. Perhaps, rightly so because without strong funding you can have as much racing heart as you like, you'll ultimately quit. Having said that, these teams have prestige and history which is vital to the sport. My issue is with people that blame RBR for their marketing 'gimmick.' They're in every sense of the word a RACING TEAM. I think the sport I've loved for so many years is tougher than just some corporates coming in and winning four titles. It requires effort, work ethic, commitment and above all the reason why I'm writing this and people are reading this 'love and passion for racing.' Is there any other team on the grid that has a dedicated team just to give young drivers an opportunity? That in itself shows how committed RBR are. I don't see why they shouldn't eye any financial gain they can get out of their investments. Red Bull are very important to F1.

Now, on the contrary, I do feel that their success has got in their heads a lot. Success isn't their birthright, they've treated Renault, Mercedes, Ferrari and F1 poorly. They deserve all the slander they're receiving and as a young team they need to understand that their will be periods of plateaued success or lack of it in F1. They say that Merc/Ferrari need to keep the sport healthy and contradict that next day with repeated quit threats.

To conclude, RBR are a bright young team and deserve to be where they are. They need a serious lesson in respect because their legacy isn't a quarter of any of the other teams I mentioned which also includes Renault. Also, none of the teams are scared of them. They hold a competitive edge, which they don't want to yield. Like I said a lot of times before, RB should have been humble and worked with Renault to solve their issues as a premium customer. They chose to see the glass half empty by looking at Mercedes, but failed to see the glass half full relative to Honda.

I was going to up vote your post but you spoiled it with the last two paragraphs.

No cookie for you, sorry.

[ChrisM40]

Well I think its clear to the public who the fault lays with.. No one but RB themselves. Dare I say they were never the most popular team, and now few will really miss them if they get replaced (by just about anyone).

Caterham? HRT?

As long as those insufferable ****** Horner and Marko arent running them then id welcome them with open arms. F1 desperately needs positivity, not the negativity these guys are putting out. 2 teams that want to be there are better than 2 teams that only want to be there if they get their own way.

[turbof1]

First of all, I want to address a section of the people that have this tendency to put the hammer down on RBR by saying that they're only in F1 for their marketing gimmick. Well, if that's the case then thank god they're not serious about racing otherwise I can't begin to think how monotonous F1 would have been from 2010-13.

Secondly, there is obviously a huge sense of nostalgia and romance attached to teams like Ferrari, McLaren and Williams. The purists always prefer them because of men like Enzo Ferrari, Ron Dennis and Frank Williams. Men that did whatever they did to have enough money to race and win. Well, I'd like to say that that's in the past. Ferrari don't make sports cars to fund their racing team, instead they now use the racing team to sell more road cars. This is the 21st century and we must accept that priorities change. Perhaps, rightly so because without strong funding you can have as much racing heart as you like, you'll ultimately quit. Having said that, these teams have prestige and history which is vital to the sport. My issue is with people that blame RBR for their marketing 'gimmick.' They're in every sense of the word a RACING TEAM. I think the sport I've loved for so many years is tougher than just some corporates coming in and winning four titles. It requires effort, work ethic, commitment and above all the reason why I'm writing this and people are reading this 'love and passion for racing.' Is there any other team on the grid that has a dedicated team just to give young drivers an opportunity? That in itself shows how committed RBR are. I don't see why they shouldn't eye any financial gain they can get out of their investments. Red Bull are very important to F1.

Now, on the contrary, I do feel that their success has got in their heads a lot. Success isn't their birthright, they've treated Renault, Mercedes, Ferrari and F1 poorly. They deserve all the slander they're receiving and as a young team they need to understand that their will be periods of plateaued success or lack of it in F1. They say that Merc/Ferrari need to keep the sport healthy and contradict that next day with repeated quit threats.

To conclude, RBR are a bright young team and deserve to be where they are. They need a serious lesson in respect because their legacy isn't a quarter of any of the other teams I mentioned which also includes Renault. Also, none of the teams are scared of them. They hold a competitive edge, which they don't want to yield. Like I said a lot of times before, RB should have been humble and worked with Renault to solve their issues as a premium customer. They chose to see the glass half empty by looking at Mercedes, but failed to see the glass half full relative to Honda.

I was going to up vote your post but you spoiled it with the last two paragraphs.

No cookie for you, sorry.

[djos]

First of all, I want to address a section of the people that have this tendency to put the hammer down on RBR by saying that they're only in F1 for their marketing gimmick. Well, if that's the case then thank god they're not serious about racing otherwise I can't begin to think how monotonous F1 would have been from 2010-13.

?????

Confused about this part.

I take it to mean that if RBR hadn't been in F1 during 2010-2013, F1 would have been boring.

How would that have made it boring/monotonous? If RBR weren't there dominating every race, wouldn't there have been 3-4 Teams battling it out week in and week out for the Driver's and Constructor's Championship?

The thing is they didn't dominate every race, e.g. 2012 Fernando, Mark and Seb had a 3 way battle for the championship that was only decided at the last trace of the season and Seb was 3rd in the standings prior to that race.

Mercedes in the v6 era have been far more dominant than RedBull ever where.

[djos]

Turbo,

The issue of misconstrued points comes from obfuscation. We can see readily the main issues of contention here is Red Bull's conduct and their premature termination of Renault supply.

It's a dangerous precedent that will have a knock on effect to most teams in the pitlane terminating engine contracts and demanding the best or leaving.

We could even see a group of smaller teams pool together and hold F1 ransom in such a fashion.

In a nutshell then, minus any obfuscating and reams of tripe...Red Bull are no more entitled to a Ferrari or Merc engine than Mercedes or Ferrari are entitled to the blue prints of Red Bull's aero philosophy. Until we all agree on that, this thread should remain locked

It's not exactly without precedent, e.g. Lotus terminated their Renault contact early to get Mercedes engines for this year. Clearly if the Renault wasn't such a pos they wouldn't have done this!

[Cannonballer]

If it wasn't clear before, it should be completely obvious now that Red Bull is just working an exit strategy that permits them to cast blame on everyone but themselves.

Clear as day, and has been for some time. My only hope is they reach the conclusion swiftly, as this has been played out like a Shakespearean tragedy, but without the eloquence or intellect.

:::slow clap:::
Very well said sirs.

So what happens to the RBR staff, is (can) RBR going to pay them for all of 2016? I am guessing more than just the driver's have contracts through 2016.

[dans79]

So what happens to the RBR staff, is (can) RBR going to pay them for all of 2016? I am guessing more than just the driver's have contracts through 2016.

All that Money is going to go to Bernie for leaving before 2020!

[bhall II]

It seems logical that the Concorde Agreement, or whatever it's called these days, would have a sort of "free exit" clause that permits teams who are unable to secure an engine deal to leave the sport without penalty. So, I wonder if everything we've seen from Red Bull is a deliberate attempt to piss off everyone so much that no supplier will work with them, thus freeing the team of its contractual obligations.

Red Bull leadership has never been the most magnanimous bunch - as if such a quality even exists in F1. But, even by their own standards, their conduct throughout this whole affair has been bizarre at best and totally counterproductive for a team that claims its priority is to be on the grid next year.

"Nothing is officially finished with Renault," [Christian Horner] added. "There's a lot of speculation. It's difficult to envisage we go forward but this is Formula One and nothing is impossible."

"Unfortunately, our relationship with Renault is pretty terminal," [Adrian] Newey told Reuters. "There's been too much of a marriage breakdown, so we have no engine."

Frankly, it's a lot easier to accept this continuous brinkmanship as a sly ploy, because the alternative is incomprehensibly dumb.