Espionage at Ferrari and McLaren

[checkered]

There's not much

of a chance that this thing will go away, is there? The latest comments from Max Mosley seem to be designed to egg the media on to find out more. You know, like one of the oldest (marketing) ploys there ever was: "If you knew what I know ..."

In an Autosport article (link) where it is confirmed that he got the infamous emails from Ecclestone (well, duh):

There are still some great mysteries: was Stepney passing on information for free? That's very unlikely. Therefore who paid him and why? There will be heavy consequences for them in the proceedings in Italy and Great Britain. No one will hire them anymore in F1, that's for sure. Ours was a sporting trial. In the ordinary ones astonishing things will come out. Many of them.

And in another Autosport piece (link), where he incidentally slams one "particular ex-driver" quite harshly, among other things, there's this:

Everything will come out in detail and we will all be surprised. ... We don't want this to drag on but I don't feel it has harmed F1. The fans and sponsors who are putting in huge sums of money want to know the sport is honest.

That the same issues are gone over again and again can't be healthy for the organisations and individuals involved. Sporting fairness extends to behaviour beyond sporting events. Law, self regulation and due process, even less than perfectly applied, are one thing and may or may not lead to findings of liability and the need for corrective actions. But it's a whole another matter when law, self regulation and due process become penalties in themselves.

In some systems, there are standards that prevent this from happening. Perhaps it's time F1 and the FIA considered what can be done in this regard. And I hope IP rights within the sport are relaxed, as has been suggested in the "2011" documents.

Edit:

Red Mist, an autobiography by Nigel Stepney is to be released during the spring of 2008. I'll believe it when I see it, the website which promotes the book seems a little rudimentary. If Coughlan has a literary streak, too, he could come up with "Silver Haze" ... links here and here.

I'm starting to feel a bit here ...

[mcdenife]

checkered wrote

Red Mist, an autobiography by Nigel Stepney is to be released during the spring of 2008. I'll believe it when I see it, the website which promotes the book seems a little rudimentary. If Coughlan has a literary streak, too, he could come up with "Silver Haze" ... links here and here.

I'm starting to feel a bit here ...

and rest assured, between now and then, max will go out of his way to belittle, denigrate, discredit, you-name-it, this guy to make sure the story either does not come or no one believes him. Picture his attack on Jackie, other people in a position of authority like max will maintain a dignified silence or at least put forward a coherent statement/comment, well reasoned alternative point of view. But not Max. Max argument is: 'he is a has been, dont listen to him'. It says a lot about the character of the President of the FIA and his political shenanigans, no? Cover my incompetence by belittling others rather than engage in INTELLIGENT debate/discussion.
Any wonder why there is no appeal? this is sad. There is no cause for redress where the FIA is concerned.

Left me thinking:
Its all well and good turning the other cheek. But its no good turning the other cheek when the other party keeps on slapping u precisely because he knows you will turn the other cheek!!!! I despair; when and who will ever take the FIA to task, that the other teams matter, that F1 matters to a lot of fans, people?

I noticed that even for Ferrari fans, this has left a very bitter taste in the mouth.

Manchild, if you are listening? they are not worth it. Come back so we can have fiercely, agressive, but at least, well reasoned disagreements.

[modbaraban]

erm... vive la resistance!

[mcdenife]

you are g,darn right. Unfortunately, with max, it gets u nowhere. he is way too dim. "I am head honcho on a power trip" and being max "I am, therefore I think"

[Rob W]

Yeah, it's pretty common for criminals to be prevented from profiting from their crimes... as part of the court case for sure there will be an injunction - and I doubt an Italian court would have much trouble supporting an application for an injunction.

So far as Mosley's comments on this:

There are still some great mysteries: was Stepney passing on information for free? That's very unlikely. Therefore who paid him and why?

What a joke. He knows that Coulghan and Stepney were planning to team up and go to another team. Coulghan was a designer, Stepney was not - it is pretty obvious Coulghan held the lion's share of the power and bargaining in the arrangement. He probably asked, as a test of loyalty (for a start), for some Ferrari info from Stepney... and it developed from there. Stepney, knowing he could only ever be a technical director to someone like Coulghan played lap-dog..

If Mosley can't at least see the high possibility of this then he doesn't have the mental capacity to run F1.

Rob W

[FLC]

Nothing's obvious about it, except maybe for the fact that you have ignored some facts and about a ton of questions which made you jump to conclusions. Here's a few for stimulation:

If Coughlan and Stepney were planning to team up and go to another team, then why not take information from both Ferrari and McLaren? Why just Ferrari? Why risk everything by maintaining constant communication? Why share anything with the drivers? With the management? If he's unhappy at McLaren even slightly, why would he go out of his way to help them?

How do you explain the fact that Ian Mill stated in the first hearing that "according to what Mr Frye has told us, Mr Coughlan aspired to become Technical Director of Honda"? A statement which Ron Dennis explicitly confirmed? Where would that put Stepney?

How many tests of loyalty (for a start?! and then it turned into a hubby?!) would Stepney agree to take? 288 times by SMS? 35 by phone? How many e-mails? Face to face meeting? Almost each and every one of them a huge risk. And "it developed from there" to what? An addiction?

Mosley is maybe doing a bad job in most aspects but the joke here isn't on him... Some might be sorry to hear it, but he is far from stupid and he sure knows his business.

[Rob W]

If Coughlan and Stepney were planning to team up and go to another team, then why not take information from both Ferrari and McLaren? Why just Ferrari? Why risk everything by maintaining constant communication? Why share anything with the drivers? With the management? If he's unhappy at McLaren even slightly, why would he go out of his way to help them?

I bet McLaren, on learning about all this, made darn well sure Coulghan couldn't take any McL documents out of the system. That would be the first thing they would have thought of - if Stepney and Coulghan are thinking of teaming up then they'll take both Ferrari and McLaren data for best results.

Coulghan and Stephney teaming up would not have been as simple as taking some Ferrari documents - they would have been taking McLaren ones too for sure. As for their roles, Coulghan is a designer - he makes/uses designs - many of which would mean little to Stepney's role. Stepney, on the other hand, wants to be a join technical director - his priority would be an overall engineering direction and implementation/coordination of design/testing etc. They could be joint technical director's but have quite different roles. (Sam Michael and Ed Wood anyone?)

Perhaps, in McLaren integrating some of Ferrari's actual designs (which apparently hasn't happened ) Coulghan realised he would need the services of someone like De La Rosa. So far as we can tell, De La Rosa is the only person who knowingly had contact with Coulghan and asked specific questions about Ferrari (Alonso did it via DLR). Maybe De La Rosa was part of Coulghan and Stepney's new 'team' - his testing/practical-use knowledge is massive.

Mosley is playing the card which suits whatever he wants to portray to the media. He wants it to look like F1 is serious about cheating - and I hope they are - but his careful avoiding of a completely obvious reason why no money needed to change hands for the Ferrari documents is either a deliberate attempt to implying McLaren bought the plans or he's just oblivious to what was probably going on - Coulghan and Stepney planning to team up and create a super technical team out of the work of the two top teams in F1.

As for the money. Tracing large amounts of money is pretty easy to do - and I'm sure they've done it already.

Rob W

[FLC]

Your completely entitled to do this, but forgive me if I still think this is not serious. You revise almost your entire theory just like that and keep ignoring some of the questions and facts.

I think most of the questions I asked earlier are still relevant, and about the money - how do you know it was indeed money? How do you know we're talking about "large amounts"? Who said they didn't transfer it little by little?

DLR is the "only" one? You really believe that? That's the best joke of both the transcripts.

[Rob W]

Your completely entitled to do this, but forgive me if I still think this is not serious. You revise almost your entire theory just like that and keep ignoring some of the questions and facts...

I think most of the questions I asked earlier are still relevant, and about the money - how do you know it was indeed money?..

DLR is the "only" one? You really believe that? That's the best joke of both the transcripts.

For sure. I totally see your point. But my main point was that there is, as Max cleverly didn't mention, a completely sound explanation as to why Stepney was passing the documents onto Coughlan. They were tying to team up together to go to another team - there is even proof of it (meeting with Pat Fry) - but none of any money being paid. Surely this alone would make you think: Why would Coughlan pay Stepney for something he was going to use together with him when they more to another team?

I have read every page of the transcripts and De La Rosa is the only person at McLaren who spoke to Coughlan specifically about technical issues and in the knowledge that the info was coming from Ferrari. (Of course he probably wasn't the only person, depending on who you believe, but the transcripts only mention DLR).

Alonso's interaction is the same as what any other driver on the grid would have done - Someone offered him info saying something like "Fernando, I think we can change the balance by doing X, this team does it.." - the reply is always going to come back "yes, please find out for me." It's not as though Alonso said, "If you have any Ferrari documents by some change can you please send them to me to look over." He is driving the car, not designing it and certainly not sitting at home testing different gases in his tires etc.

My post about De La Rosa was actually serious but without any evidence - just an idea. If Coughlan and Stepney were moving to another team it would be ideal for them to take other staff with them if possible. A test driver like DLR would be invaluable - that is why good test drivers often get paid so much to not leave the team to race for a back-running team.

We can agree to disagree but the simple fact is, Max Mosley painted a picture with his comment which is less likely than the scenario that I suggested. (Unless there is hidden/undiscovered evidence that he knows about) - He is trying to stir up Ron Dennis - despite their being plenty of evidence that very few people at McLaren knew about the Coughlan/Stepney association plus the known fact that Coughlan/Stepney wanted to go to another team together. There is no evidence mentioned anywhere so far by any party of bank-account irregularities (surely the Italian police could have forged some by now )- yet that is one of the very first things the FIA and investigators would have looked at in both Coughlan/Stepney as well as their partners, the teams (and any recent large purchases etc).

I have been involved in hundred of legal proceedings and Mosley, as an ex-lawyer, routinely frames his statements in a way which suits his needs best, regardless of how one-sided they may be. In this case we know he hates McLaren and isn't happy with the outcome of the case (he's said so) - but he can't do much about it without more mud-flinging. His comments about Jackie Stewart show the sort of nonsense he resorts to when he has no come-back - big-mouth bullying.

Rob W

[Ciro Pabón]

Red mist... well...

Maybe this is the answer to the most intriguing question (for me, at least):

Why would Stepney sabotage the car?

Compared to that, the risk brought by all other actions, including the paging, seems trivial.

Good reasoning, RobW. It's Coughlan, Rob, Coughlan.

[checkered]

... a completely sound explanation as to why Stepney was passing the documents onto Coulghan. They were tying to team up together to go to another team - there is even proof of it (meeting with Pat Fry) - but none of any money being paid. Surely this alone would make you think: Why would Coulghan pay Stepney for something he was going to use together with him when they more to another team?

Their contact

with Honda, as Fry clearly stated (and both McLaren and Ferrari completely accepted this) was cursory, completely unplanned on Honda's part and came months and months after Stepney started to feed McLaren information to Coughlan. (He kept Coughlan up to date with Ferrari testing and tactics way before the technical documents changed hands, even before the season started.) To me this indicates that the Honda escapade was something akin to a plan b, an afterthought or even an attempt to shield the original motives by arranging a more suitable one. Had the Honda scenario been the most plausible one, there would've been no incentive in giving the very information they were going to use at Honda to anyone else - the least of all Coughlan's current employer.

Alonso's interaction is the same as what any other driver on the grid would have done - Someone offered him info saying something like "Fernando, I think we can change the balance by doing X, this team does it.." - the reply is always going to come back "yes, please find out for me." It's not as though Alonso said, "If you have any Ferrari documents by some change can you please send them to me to look over." He is driving the car, not designing it and certainly not sitting at home testing different gases in his tires etc.

Review the transcript. It's not "someone" or "something". He asked specific questions and for good reason, stuff that drivers do have control over, like weight and aero distribution which are routinely changed when correct setups are searched. To Alonso's surprise, Ferrari's weight distribution propably was outside McLaren's parameters at that point. De la Rosa named the team and the engineer from where he got the information to Alonso, there was no confusion about it, Fernando had to be well aware that the exchange was ongoing. Pedro stating that he thought Stepney was an ex-Ferrari employee is utterly unconvincing as he kept receiving up to date data from him via Coughlan.

We can agree to disagree but the simple fact is, Max Mosley painted a picture with his comment which is less likely than the scenario that I suggested.

What worries me most is what I view as an inappropriate timing to reach any decisions. Now, by Mosley's own admission even, more information is still bound to come to light. So what was the hurry in organising the WMSC hearings so soon?

His comments about Jackie Stewart show the sort of nonsense he resorts to when he has no come-back - big-mouth bullying.

Rob W

Mosley's comments about Stewart were out of line, as far as I'm concerned. Not only that, his remarks about a few sponsors being involved with the three times world champion appeared to be designed to have an economical effect on Sir Jackie. I haven't even reviewed Stewart's opinions about this to a sufficient degree to agree or disagree with him, but he's certainly entitled to an opinion, same as anyone else. I'm sure if what he has said was thoroughly unfair or some sort of gibberish, we wouldn't need Mosley telling us that.

The sabotage thing has been overshadowed by everything else. There's very little to go on in order to make any conclusions about that. I'd be very much surprised if Coughlan's line would change from accusing someone of framing him by planting the white powdery substance in his pockets.

Edit: A point of view, or two, to consider written by Mike Lawrence in Pitpass.com ... "Unfinished business" (link) ... hope the link works, the site doesn't function with your run of the mill, most conventional available, coding. If it doesn't work, the feature will be right on the front page, at least for a while.

[Rob W]

Maybe this is the answer to the most intriguing question (for me, at least):

Why would Stepney sabotage the car?

Now that is a good question. The performance of the Ferrari car would be part of Stepney's sales 'pitch' when moving to another team - so sabotaging them wouldn't really be in his interest. So perhaps Ferrari knew about the documents being sent before they claim (and watched him for a few weeks to find more evidence) and decided, before getting the police/FIA involved, it would be best to discredit him in the public eyes first by creating this white power thing,... (or he was working for McLaren after all which I sort of doubt... it would be easier to just apply for a job)

It's Coughlan, Rob, Coughlan.

I know... (ok, I went back and edited the post )

Rob W

[scarbs]

This email from stepney to coughlan on March 14th was published in Autosport magazine today...

"Mike,
Apart from the rear wing, I don't htink its the whole story. Once the front floor compresses, when it makes contact with the ground at about 200kmh to full compression, the drag reduces quite considerably, due to the reduction of air beneath the car. At the same time the turning vanes also move.
The front floor is about 100cm long, so its quite an effective device, also as mentioned in my previous email, as a mass damper, because it helps in this mode to control the arrow and keep the front tyre contact patch. Other areas we look at are the rear stal, but this is difficult to control. Another solution has been found, which I'll talk to you another time."

Crikey.....!

[mcdenife]

Was reported a couple of weeks ago and refers to the moving/flexing floor issue. The was the issue refered to the FIA by Mclaren for clarification.

[checkered]

Well, unlikely as

it may seem Danish toys and the Formula One espionage case have now met. El Pais has produced a LEGO dramatisation of the (call it as you see it) affair thus far, featuring figurines I guess many of us are familiar with. Moments of drama and silliness, with a touch of the absurd ... a point of view captured in time, a microcosm revealed of a story, its selected protagonists and the online bit-bards that compiled their synthesis of the saga. I know I was amused and appreciated the effort.

La trama de espionaje McLaren - Ferrari (link)


"Nigel, che è quella polvere bianca?"
Image linked from http://www.ddavid.com