Mclaren Honda 2015

[Wazari]

Knowing Mr. Dennis, he would be furious if this were to happen. McLaren wants to be the "works" team for Honda. Also keep in mind, Honda packaged the PU to fit the MP4-30, not the other way around. This would also cause some staffing difficulties for Honda. They would have to create a liaison team for RB at the 11th hour. I am sure there would enormous political pressure from the FIA if RB needs Honda to continue in F1 to supply them with PU's even if against Honda's better interest. The politics of F1 is what I dislike most about the sport.

I hope they go to the 2.2 liter V6 format in 2017 and get everyone on a even playing field and possible one or two more suppliers in the mix.

[Sasha]

From Japanese motorsport press...

The rumor is the RB bosses was in Japan talking to Honda's CEO.

RB boss was asked what is the chance now to have a Honda PU in 2016 and he stated 25% because Ron Dennis is going to fight this move 110%.

It looks like this deal is being pushed by F1 boss Mr E.

At the moment he wants Honda do it without him forcing them to do so.(Honda has a contract with FIA to supply three teams)

[max_speed]

From Japanese motorsport press...

The rumor is the RB bosses was in Japan talking to Honda's CEO.

RB boss was asked what is the chance now to have a Honda PU in 2016 and he stated 25% because Ron Dennis is going to fight this move 110%.

It looks like this deal is being pushed by F1 boss Mr E.

At the moment he wants Honda do it without him forcing them to do so.(Honda has a contract with FIA to supply three teams)

i do not think it should happen. why Mr E cant force mercedes or Ferrari to do the same. mclaren did all the hard work and bruought honda back and Redbull they are strong team but sore losers .they thought they are too important to F1 and the moment they say that they are leaving everyone , they will get whatever they like. they have been shown their place. i won't minds seeing them out of F1. their people will be taken by other top teams anyday but cribbing will stop.

[Slife]

It must be nice to be able to keep changing engines, until you get a competitive one. Red Bull are definately politcal masters if they get a Honda engine.

[mclaren111]

Way to go Ron =D> =D> =D>

[damager21]

This autosport article highlights that Ron Dennis is against Red Bull-Honda deal

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/121483

I think for once Bernie must shut up. Is'nt he the same person who managed to pull away Johnnie Walker from McLaren when they were in talks with McLaren for being their title sponsor? At that time, Bernie looked at his interest so there is nothing wrong in Ron looking at McLaren's interest. Bernie is trying to play politics by showing Honda in good light and Ron in bad.

I think in all this, Red Bull are to blame themselves. They should have secured a engine deal with Ferrari or Mercedes before abusing Renault in press. This situation is not Ron's making so why drag him by telling the world he is stopping this deal. Moreover, Honda is possibly the last manufacturer approached by Red Bull. They started with Mercedes who said No, went to Ferrari who offered 2015 engine which they did no want, then I think they spoke to Renault who for all the right reasons are giving them no clarity about 2016. So the last option is Honda which is by force and not choice.

Even if Honda has an agreement with Bernie to offer engines to 2 teams in 2016, I think Honda themselves can say No on grounds of limited time. They have barely 4 months before testing for next season. Over this winter Honda needs to focus on pulling back 2.5 secs deficit rather than investing their energies on engaging with a new team to explain their engine philosophy and packaging.

[mclaren111]

Well put !! =D> =D>

[alexx_88]

I think in all this, Red Bull are to blame themselves. They should have secured a engine deal with Ferrari or Mercedes before abusing Renault in press.

I keep seeing this in a number of posts and can't imagine how this opinion came to existence. What would Mercedes be afraid of? That HPP will suddenly lose all the performance advantage they have now? How? And wouldn't that, in itself, be more damaging to their brand than anything someone else has to say? We are not talking about other competitors catching up to them (natural by the law of diminishing returns), but their PUs blowing up left and right or losing a lot of their competitive advantage. I really can't see the RB-Renault relationship as the reason why RB are being kept away from the best PUs on the grid now. It's as simple as the very distinct possibility that RB would beat them if they had the same power unit. That's also illustrated by the fact that Ferrari were ready to supply 1-year old units without a problem.

As to the Bernie-Ron relationship. Ron, in his arrogance, made enemies with Bernie 10-20 years ago and he's now paying the price. If Bernie could somehow force/convince Honda to supply RB, it would be a double combo for him: stick one to Ron/Mclaren and keep RB in business. It's also in Honda's advantage. Let's not kid ourselves, even with full Mercedes PU integration, Mclaren wouldn't beat the works team right now. Their chassis isn't good enough. To that extent, the Honda PU is made to look slightly worse than it is by an average chassis. So, them offering the PUs to RB would allow them to have two horses in the race, greatly improving their chances, without any additional cost. Now, Mclaren would've been crazy not to put any exclusivity/veto clauses in the Honda contract, but who knows?

[mrluke]

If Honda can double the amount of testing they get on their power units then that is only going to help McLaren. McLaren will be against it as it will show up all their bullshit about having the best chassis.

[bauc]

Well if RB indeed gets a Honda engine for next year, then is up to Mclaren to step up the game and prove to all of us that they can be the best again, and if they are truly on that path, that means to be better then everybody else given the same chance/means of victory. But I cant but argue that as I've stated before in the RB Thread, this would feel like a betrayal from Honda towards Mclaren in a sence that Mclaren provided them with the ultimate test bed for their PU: a race car, experience & knowledge and 2 world champions, who suffered greatly thought the year. And for those who say Honda should have entered in 2016 but was pushed by Mclaren a year early, I say this: What are the chances that if Honda entered next year that their PU would not, again needed a full year of proper testing on track to get into a competitive state? So to summarize, I can only see Mclaren burned badly out of this situation.

[tok-tokkie]

^^^Alexx

I think in all this, Red Bull are to blame themselves. They should have secured a engine deal with Ferrari or Mercedes before abusing Renault in press.


I keep seeing this in a number of posts and can't imagine how this opinion came to existence.

It is well explained in the quote from the Autosport forum this post http://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewto ... ce#p604053

Red Bull were stupid to tell Renault to get lost before they had arranged an alternative. If they had arranged an alternative they could have gone to Renault & negotiated from a position of strength. As it is they now have to rely on Bernie as they themselves are pretty well powerless through their own actions.

[bonjon1979]

I think in all this, Red Bull are to blame themselves. They should have secured a engine deal with Ferrari or Mercedes before abusing Renault in press.

I keep seeing this in a number of posts and can't imagine how this opinion came to existence. What would Mercedes be afraid of? That HPP will suddenly lose all the performance advantage they have now? How? And wouldn't that, in itself, be more damaging to their brand than anything someone else has to say? We are not talking about other competitors catching up to them (natural by the law of diminishing returns), but their PUs blowing up left and right or losing a lot of their competitive advantage. I really can't see the RB-Renault relationship as the reason why RB are being kept away from the best PUs on the grid now. It's as simple as the very distinct possibility that RB would beat them if they had the same power unit. That's also illustrated by the fact that Ferrari were ready to supply 1-year old units without a problem.

As to the Bernie-Ron relationship. Ron, in his arrogance, made enemies with Bernie 10-20 years ago and he's now paying the price. If Bernie could somehow force/convince Honda to supply RB, it would be a double combo for him: stick one to Ron/Mclaren and keep RB in business. It's also in Honda's advantage. Let's not kid ourselves, even with full Mercedes PU integration, Mclaren wouldn't beat the works team right now. Their chassis isn't good enough. To that extent, the Honda PU is made to look slightly worse than it is by an average chassis. So, them offering the PUs to RB would allow them to have two horses in the race, greatly improving their chances, without any additional cost. Now, Mclaren would've been crazy not to put any exclusivity/veto clauses in the Honda contract, but who knows?

Remember it's a two way street, Ron will equally enjoy sticking it to Bernie. If Mclaren have a veto in their contract then it's up to them who Honda supply. None of us know the detail though

[ME4ME]

"The honest answer at the moment it would appear that Honda are happy to give them an engine and Mr Dennis thinks they shouldn't," said Ecclestone.

"Although Honda have got an agreement with the FIA and myself that they would allow them into F1 to supply to engines to one team for first year, two teams second and three teams the third.

"And they somehow got involved and made a commitment to Ron that he had a veto on any engines, and he doesn't want Red Bull.

Typical F1: such a mess.
Mclaren has a right to block a Honda-RB partnership. The FIA/FOM have a right to demand it. Honda have got themselves in a tough spot there..

[OneAlex]

I keep seeing this in a number of posts and can't imagine how this opinion came to existence. What would Mercedes be afraid of? ... It's as simple as the very distinct possibility that RB would beat them if they had the same power unit.

I keep seeing this idea that it's "fear" on Mercedes' part for not wanting to give Red Bull their engines and be beaten by them bandied about by RB fans/staff... I don't quite understand it.

During the start of the double blown diffuser era when Red Bull were aggressively protecting the secret of how it worked so well to maintain their 4-championships-in-a-row advantage I don't remember people constantly saying it was "fear" of the other teams beating them that stopped RB from sharing the exact details. It was simply something they had which the other teams would simply have to develop (or get it declared illegal).

You can't aggressively protect your own championship winning advantage one year and then call another team scared for not surrendering theirs the next.


Anyway, back to Honda... My wildly inaccurate prediction is that if Bernie forces them to supply RB next year, it may turn into more than one season. Should Honda come good next year, RB may want to take a look at the whole "size zero" concept and see if they can't redesign their 2017 charger around it too. McLaren's going to struggle to maintain exclusivity unless Ron can successfully argue the veto this year.

[Manoah2u]

"The honest answer at the moment it would appear that Honda are happy to give them an engine and Mr Dennis thinks they shouldn't," said Ecclestone.

"Although Honda have got an agreement with the FIA and myself that they would allow them into F1 to supply to engines to one team for first year, two teams second and three teams the third.

"And they somehow got involved and made a commitment to Ron that he had a veto on any engines, and he doesn't want Red Bull.

Typical F1: such a mess.
Mclaren has a right to block a Honda-RB partnership. The FIA/FOM have a right to demand it. Honda have got themselves in a tough spot there..

oh for ****s sake, what inimaginable tabloid and gossip 'housewife' bs is going on lately regarding this stuff.
come on.

no tough spot no nothing.

RedBull are the ones who made a f*cking mess, simple as that. nobody else did. Honda is not in a tough spot, RedBull is because of their own deeds. It came back to bite them in their **ses, and that's what they're dealing with now. nothing more, nothing less.

Renault didn't do their homework right and had a flawed engine. Instead of taking care of it in a professional and f1-worthy manner, RB immediately started screaming around like a jealeous child that after 4 years of having toys far better and cooler than the other kids, they're whining their asses off that they dont have the supersonic superwinner anymore,
and blame everything on Renault. And commence a word fight and angry Renault and get so far as to piss them off.
And not just once, but weekend after weekend, day after day, hour after hour.

If Renault had any motivation to fix their issues - you can betcha they do as they don't like the position they're in now,
being treated like that kinda ruins it all.

And that's how it is.

Honda is not to blame for anything, at all. Ferrari neither and Mercedes neither. RedBull screwed up, simple as that.
They were cheating their way to their championships in some of the past seasons and raised the finger to the competition.
They're getting served their own medicine. And the guy deserving it the most is not Dietrich Mateshiz, it's that Austrian bigmouth who's misteriously quiet all of a sudden.

The only real loser here is Toro Rosso. Atleast one can respect them, they didnt' scream their butts off about the renault problems they faced. Yet they're gonna have to find a way to be able to actually be on the 2017 grid when RedBull pulls the plug due to their own idiocy.

Ron has all the right to veto against it, who wouldnt?
They got Honda back into F1, and they're working their asses of day and night to get back up to the front. They put blood sweat and tears in the chassis and the Honda guys are putting blood sweat and tears in getting a competitive engine with the restricions they have. All along they'll have to please Alonso and Button, who come with a price tag, whom they'll need to get back to their legendary status. Not an easy task.

And now you have the whining child RedBull that demands a Honda engine because they themselves screwed up? Imagine that, Honda is definately going to have their things worked out by the end of the season and have a fully competitive engine in 2016, and you'll just have these sore RedBull campers spooning in all the hard and costly work of another team that sunk to the bottom and leave them with the bill, and you are going to steal all that and beat them without having had a slightest sweat for it, knowing that in 2017 you're going to be even stronger thanks to the rules that are gonna change in your direction just because you scream like a madman because Mercedes stole your thunder by having done better work?

madness!

can we please, please, PLEASE leave the RedBull crap to the redbull threads and have the Mclaren - Honda thread focused purely on Mclaren and Honda, please?

i'm sick of this RedBull ordeal, its RB this, RB that, this that whatnot, just friggin cut it out. it's done. it's over. for f*cks sake, can everybody just stop about this?
Really, i have to vent about this. it's just gotten to an intolerable point.

stop giving crybaby RB their attention. put a blanket over it kill the light and let them be.