Infiniti Red Bull Racing 2015

[djos]

who said Renault would block the deal? The only thing that said was that Merc needed the ok from Renault to get started on a deal with RBR. They didn't even say the RBR Renault contract needed to be canceled. Also do you know what the Renault/Merc contracts look like? do you know for a fact that they didn't have any kind of conflict of interest or no compete type clauses in them?

To look at it in the working context....imagine Renault are actually doing something well or novel in the PU dept(but it requires more testing/investment/time), Red Bull are privy to this(information), and they break contract to get the supply of a "competitive" engine.
The "competitive" engine supplier could be passed this information, free of charge, thus anti-competitive.

From Red Bull and Renault we had the whole spiel regarding de-facto manufacturer team...I do wonder the level of info transfer betwixt the two.

Nice theory fox but RedBull have said on several occasions that one of the things they are most unhappy with, is the lack of visibility of Renault's development road map. Horner has said they've never had visibility of it, even in the V8 era.

[FoxHound]

To look at it in the working context....imagine Renault are actually doing something well or novel in the PU dept(but it requires more testing/investment/time), Red Bull are privy to this(information), and they break contract to get the supply of a "competitive" engine.
The "competitive" engine supplier could be passed this information, free of charge, thus anti-competitive.

From Red Bull and Renault we had the whole spiel regarding de-facto manufacturer team...I do wonder the level of info transfer betwixt the two.

Nice theory fox but RedBull have said on several occasions that one of the things they are most unhappy with, is the lack of visibility of Renault's development road map. Horner has said they've never had visibility of it, even in the V8 era.

It's no theory when Red Bull are involved in the process.
Do Red Bull not make some parts in relation to the PU? Honest question I'm trying to ascertain.

[dans79]

Do Red Bull not make some parts in relation to the PU? Honest question I'm trying to ascertain.

They developed their own KERS system in the V8 era, but I don't know if they continued to do so into the V6 era.

[djos]

Do Red Bull not make some parts in relation to the PU? Honest question I'm trying to ascertain.

They developed their own KERS system in the V8 era, but I don't know if they continued to do so into the V6 era.

Yeah Im not sure about this either - it wouldn't make much sense for RBR to develop the ERS systems in isolation to the Renault ICE.

Renault seem to be taking credit for the entire system here:

http://www.renaultsportf1.com/The-new-p ... ml?lang=fr

[ME4ME]

Some interesting quotes from Mark Hughes:

http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12475/ ... -this-mess

Sober conclusion though:

"Unless they take a year off and wait for the 2017 budget engines, it's difficult to see what options are left..."

[turbof1]

They are leaving the sport. I don't think we can go around that fact. Renault does not want to deliver, Ferrari does not want to deliver, Mercedes does not want to deliver, Honda wants to deliver but can't. Rebatched Renault engines do not seem to be an option, Matechitz made that very clear that he does not want to go back to Renault, so what options are out there? None.

Enjoy the last couple of races from them, guys.

[Facts Only]

I'll take a £10 bet with you Turbo that Team Milton Keynes are on the grid next year in some form or another. Maybe not as Red Bull Bacing. Look at Brawn, Sauber even Manor and none of them were the team that Red Bull is.

[turbof1]

I'll take a £10 bet with you Turbo that Team Milton Keynes are on the grid next year in some form or another. Maybe not as Red Bull Bacing. Look at Brawn, Sauber even Manor and none of them were the team that Red Bull is.

Do you have a paypal account? I'll take that bet actually, on condition that has to remain more or less the same team. A skeleton staff taken over by some or other buy out does not count. PM me for the details.

Brawn, Sauber and Manor all landed a deal with an engine manufacturer, without any big issues. Those could even have gone to Cosworth (with the exception of Manor). Red Bull got denied by all current manufacturers, and Cosworth is not an option since they only developed an ICE and TC. I really don't see anything else open.

The silver lining for those teams you mentioned is perhaps even that they were not Red Bull. Not a threat, not complaining about what they got.

[ME4ME]

Also from SKY, a quote of Brundle's after-race report:

Regarding Red Bull and Toro Rosso, I'm now pretty sure they'll be on the grid in 2016.

But I'm with Turbo on this one. I think it's over for the team, even a new owner wouldn't automatically mean they get an engine.

[Facts Only]

I'll take a £10 bet with you Turbo that Team Milton Keynes are on the grid next year in some form or another. Maybe not as Red Bull Bacing. Look at Brawn, Sauber even Manor and none of them were the team that Red Bull is.

Do you have a paypal account? I'll take that bet actually, on condition that has to remain more or less the same team. A skeleton staff taken over by some or other buy out does not count. PM me for the details.

I think we're in a grey area there, as we would need to define "More or less the same team".

My bet would be that two F1 cars run from the current Milton Keyes base compete in the 2016 F1 championship.

I do have a paypal account but it would blow my cover if you knew what it was! I'll stick a tenner in an envelope and post it to you.

[turbof1]

I think we're in a grey area there, as we would need to define "More or less the same team".

Ok, let's try to define that: no lay offs, no significant change of leadership in the several departments and the team in general, no significant reduction in resources. Change of ownership is allowed. And of course they need legal PUs inside that car, although it doesn't matter which brand or what kind of performance. The reason why is that Red Bull has to stay a threat, which currently is a big factor why they aren't getting PUs.

You don't have a mate who has paypal? I'm from Belgium, so I can't pay with pounds when I'll buy beer with that money to celebrate me winning that bet .

[Bomber_Pilot]

Mateschitz will sell the operation to Horner (at a reasonable price, since it would cost him quite a lot to leave), who will find some sponsors and make a deal with Ferrari for 2015 PU. Most of the key staff will stay in anticipation of 2017.

[santos]

The FIA should alow the Red Bull to use some engine. If no one of the manufacturers wants to sell their engines, a team should be allowed to find a solution to compete.
If they leave now, no one had beaten them while they were competitive.

[Facts Only]

I think we're in a grey area there, as we would need to define "More or less the same team".

Ok, let's try to define that: no lay offs, no significant change of leadership in the several departments and the team in general, no significant reduction in resources. Change of ownership is allowed. And of course they need legal PUs inside that car, although it doesn't matter which brand or what kind of performance. The reason why is that Red Bull has to stay a threat, which currently is a big factor why they aren't getting PUs.

You don't have a mate who has paypal? I'm from Belgium, so I can't pay with pounds when I'll buy beer with that money to celebrate me winning that bet .

Sorry Turbo but the bet offered was £10 Sterling GBP of her Majesty's British Bank of England Pounds, I cant help it if you crazy Europeans are using your mad standardised money!

I think Bomber_Pilot is about right with what will happen.

I think we are looking at a Honda to Brawn or BMW to Sauber type situation with a management buyout and scaling back of the team.

[santos]

The FIA should alow the Red Bull to use some engine. If no one of the manufacturers wants to sell their engines, a team should be allowed to find a solution to compete.
If they leave now, no one had beaten them while they were competitive.

This is fan frenzy??? I don't even like Red Bull. Guess that are to many offended virgins around here.