Infiniti Red Bull Racing 2015

[Skippon]

There is no ERS development for RedBull in building 9 or anywhere else.
Yes - they attempted to make their own in 2009 but that was canned after a factory fire. A number of that project ended up the road at HPP!!
The ERS run by them 2011 to 2013 was basically a bought in Marelli based system. In 2014 and 2015 its part of the Renault PU package.

[bonjon1979]

Why no one knows the truth about 'building 9'.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=osR1jctb47Y

[FW17]

Where is this building 9?

[bonjon1979]

Where is this building 9?

Somewhere in the Nevada desert...

[bauc]

Where is this building 9?

Somewhere in the Nevada desert...

The F1's very own AREA 51

Okey we are getting OT here

[FoxHound]

Marchionne wades in:

The possibility of collaborating with Red Bull regarding the development of the power unit is still a valid option, I continue to re-affirm that. But it will not be in the context of Ferrari providing Red Bull with an equivalent engine to the one used by Ferrari in the races.
The company is available to provide engineering and production services for an engine in a separate project for Red Bull, where Ferrari can commit to provide all its best in terms of engineering and give the chance to Red Bull and other manufacturers to have these engines. But they cannot be the same Ferrari engines that race on our cars.

http://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id/140 ... t-red-bull

[bauc]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/121722

Red Bull on brink of new Renault Formula 1 engine deal for 2016

Red Bull and Renault are poised to continue their Formula 1 partnership into 2016, providing the former's owner Dietrich Mateschitz gives the green light, Autosport understands.
When Red Bull informed Renault it wanted to terminate its contract a year early, it believed it had secured a Mercedes supply for next season following high-level talks.

But the German manufacturer ultimately decided it did not want to enter into an agreement with Red Bull, and subsequent talks with Ferrari and then Honda came to nothing - the latter "very keen" but blocked by McLaren Group CEO Ron Dennis.
With alternatives exhausted, Red Bull sought new talks with Renault, which at no stage voided its side of the long-standing arrangement.
Autosport now understands the two companies are close to renewing the partnership, at least for 2016, potentially for longer, but with financial implications for Red Bull.
Renault-affiliated sponsors Infiniti and Total will remain on the RB12 next year, but then disappear from 2017 onwards.

Its deals with Infiniti and Total have given Red Bull more than double the amount in sponsorship than it has been paying for the Renault engine supply.
Under the terms of any new agreement there will be significantly reduced funds from the two big sponsors for 2016, increasing what Red Bull itself must pay Renault.
That additional revenue for Renault will, in part, help fund its works team revival, with its deal for a majority stake in Lotus set for completion around the Abu Dhabi Grand Prix later this month.
It will also have more money to invest in its engine development programme as it chases Mercedes and Ferrari.

Any engine performance gains will also naturally aid Red Bull, with the Milton Keynes-based marque scheduled to play its part by running Renault's updated engine from this weekend's Brazilian Grand Prix.

As reported by Autosport last month, Renault used 11 of its season's 12 engine development tokens on the upgrade, but Red Bull preferred to avert the necessary grid penalty to Interlagos as Austin and Mexico City suited its car better.
One factor yet to be determined is whether the engines will be Renault-badged, unbranded or carry an entirely different name.

It is believed Renault would be happy for Red Bull to rebrand its engine as that would allow a clear marketing focus on the works team.
As one source noted: "[The rebranding] could be something exotic, it could be nothing, or one of those marketing things Red Bull is very good at.
"Because they have the Energy Station they could call it the Energy power unit, something leftfield."

Autosport understands the new contracts have already been exchanged, but another source added: "No decision has been made because it is Mateschitz who needs to make the call.
"The big boss hasn't decided yet whether Red Bull stays in Formula 1 or not, that is still up in the air."

[Triumph1188]

Who knows now, the unbranded Renault/Ilien combo might not be completely far fetched. Time will tell.

[turbof1]

I still deem it highly unlikely that Illien will make modifications. You are looking at a continuation of the sponsoring into 2016. Although highly diminished, it looks like the logo's of both and Renault and Infinity will remain for 2016. It is not likely Renault will allow this as long as sponsoring continues. Next to the fact he outright denied involvement in altering the engines. James Allen's interpretation on AMuS' report is exactly the same as mine:
http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2015/11/r ... ign=buffer

After 2016 however, this does look like a reasonable possibility that Red Bull goes their own way with the PU. Without Illien for that matter, who looks interested in the independent PU idea.

I will confess however I did not saw a continuation of the Renault supply possible either. Autosport usually is correct on these things, so I'll buy that.

[OneAlex]

I think ultimately as soon as the Mercedes rejection occurred (and that was more likely than not) the end-game was always going to be either leave the sport or swallow their pride and go with Renault again, continuing the equilibrium but with much redder faces next year.

It's unappetising for both sides, particularly for Red Bull (although by rights it should be more unappetising for Renault given DM and RB's behaviour towards them), but there's no other real choice.

The decision is now down to whether DM will accept it or not.


2017/2018 is another matter, of course... if Red Bull has been clever (in private, they obviously haven't in public) they will have set some gears in motion for something new and -now VW looks unlikely- independent, even as they started to chase Ferrari.

[turbof1]

I think ultimately as soon as the Mercedes rejection occurred (and that was more likely than not) the end-game was always going to be either leave the sport or swallow their pride and go with Renault again, continuing the equilibrium but with much redder faces next year.

It's unappetising for both sides, particularly for Red Bull (although by rights it should be more unappetising for Renault given DM and RB's behaviour towards them), but there's no other real choice.

The decision is now down to whether DM will accept it or not.


2017/2018 is another matter, of course... if Red Bull has been clever (in private, they obviously haven't in public) they will have set some gears in motion for something new and -now VW looks unlikely- independent, even as they started to chase Ferrari.

Yes exactly. For Red Bull this is going to be very humiliating if they decide to go through with Renault after all, at a much worse deal then before. I do not know if DM is willing to swallow his pride on this one.

Still, I want to accept it has a real chance of succeeding. As far as I see, it's either this or dropping out of the sport.

[OneAlex]

Still, I want to accept it has a real chance of succeeding.

I have a feeling the decision may come down to the performance of the revised engine in Brazil. I know obviously Renault are in the same situation as Honda and the tokens can only do so much during the season, but I think DM will want to see some sort of positive step from the 11 tokens as a sign of what Renault can maybe do with next year's engine.

Given the turmoil I doubt Renault will have shown them much behind-the-scenes development of the 2016 engine(?)

[zeph]

Called it a month ago...

I guess DM needed a little more time to come to the same inevitable conclusion. Hubris is a beeyotch.


edit:
The part that really has me in stitches is this:

The reality though is as Parkes states categorically. RBR are not free to leave Renault in 2016 and collaborate with Ferrari because Renault, “at no stage voided its side of the long-standing arrangement [for 2016]”. So Renault’s final offer is simple. ‘We see out the 2015/16 power unit supply contract as it stands, or here are the final terms of a revision you asked for. Red Bull have little choice if they wish to further their ambitions quickly to gain greater control over their F1 power unit.

So for all their banter, RBR face a big fine for breach of contract if they walk away from Renault.

Either they sit out their contract, take Renault's amended final offer, or pay a huge fine and not have an engine at all.

Comedy gold.

[Jonnycraig]

After 2016 however, this does look like a reasonable possibility that Red Bull goes their own way with the PU.

It's been reported that RB were only looking for a 1 year supply from Ferrari/Merc/Honda as they have something else lined up for 2017.

[turbof1]

After 2016 however, this does look like a reasonable possibility that Red Bull goes their own way with the PU.

It's been reported that RB were only looking for a 1 year supply from Ferrari/Merc/Honda as they have something else lined up for 2017.

That would underline that they are planning something which does not include any of the current manufacturers, for 2017. Could be 2 things:

The could use that year to prepare their own PU. That atleast looks like a viable timespan. Honda had to use around one and half year, but Red Bull could do it 1 if they attract the necessary people and knowhow. Illien/Ilmor would not suffice I think given their emphasis on the ICE, but they could attract some employees or even ex employees from the competition. If the necessary knowhow is there, then they could atleast have something to put in the car.

They did seem interested in the alternative engine concept. I don't know if they are serious about it, given Todt would inmediately drop it if he gets the PU costs capped. But given Illien also seems interested in that, it might work out fine for Red Bull. No need for ERS systems, and probably a smaller ICE plus TC footprint combined with less cooling needed could yield aerodynamic advantages.

I do want to underline these are possibilities with a realistic outset. I don't know what they are planning.