Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

[toraabe]

Knocking knocking knocking.

I don't think they need the turbo, to make this ICE work. But they probably turned it down for the debut race, to see how it goes, before tuning it up in Abu Dahbi.

But i still think Viry is clueless, no improvememt seen, over the engine that debuted in Melbourne 2014.

[zack!]

Knocking knocking knocking.

I don't think they need the turbo, to make this ICE work. But they probably turned it down for the debut race, to see how it goes, before tuning it up in Abu Dahbi.

But i still think Viry is clueless, no improvememt seen, over the engine that debuted in Melbourne 2014.

Perhaps they are more interested in accurate benchmarking / monitoring of the 2 variant of ICE (in ame conditions) rather than to open performance of new dvpt.

My unskilled guess, is that they try to assess knocking resistance of the new combustion chamber. So they can't change gasoline formula, and are limited by other ICE (that will break). If someone can infirm/confirm. Thx in advance.

Next move may be be to assess new turbo + MGU-H improvment (so one car with, other) with a new gasoline formula with more power in it (for the 2 cars).

[toraabe]

Knocking is often due to bad chamber design, not optimized fuel and too high temperature.
The last one has been discussed previously. First of all they need to go for another turbo solution. The lack of response and drivablity is a result of too long charging pipes in which can result in the problems they had in Australia when the engine was occilating at specific rpm.

Knocking knocking knocking.

I don't think they need the turbo, to make this ICE work. But they probably turned it down for the debut race, to see how it goes, before tuning it up in Abu Dahbi.

But i still think Viry is clueless, no improvememt seen, over the engine that debuted in Melbourne 2014.

Perhaps they are more interested in accurate benchmarking / monitoring of the 2 variant of ICE (in ame conditions) rather than to open performance of new dvpt.

My unskilled guess, is that they try to assess knocking resistance of the new combustion chamber. So they can't change gasoline formula, and are limited by other ICE (that will break). If someone can infirm/confirm. Thx in advance.

Next move may be be to assess new turbo + MGU-H improvment (so one car with, other) with a new gasoline formula with more power in it (for the 2 cars).

[mrluke]

Knocking is often due to bad chamber design, not optimized fuel and too high temperature.
The last one has been discussed previously. First of all they need to go for another turbo solution. The lack of response and drivablity is a result of too long charging pipes in which can result in the problems they had in Australia when the engine was occilating at specific rpm.

Citation needed.

Plenty of street cars running rear mounted turbos with 2bar plus of boost.

[knabbel]

Knocking is often due to bad chamber design, not optimized fuel and too high temperature.
The last one has been discussed previously. First of all they need to go for another turbo solution. The lack of response and drivablity is a result of too long charging pipes in which can result in the problems they had in Australia when the engine was occilating at specific rpm.

Citation needed.

Plenty of street cars running rear mounted turbos with 2bar plus of boost.

Those cars do lack in throttle response and drive ability. My own car has a big turbo and gains about 300 HP in 1200 rpm, and that can be quite tricky to drive (especially in wet conditions). Although for F1 engines the most of the lag should be conquered with the MGU-H so turbo spool should not be a real issue there.

[Sevach]

Renault scarified 40hp for the diffuser blowing for Red Bull.

More like 12, we now that from Williams and Lotus running the engine with exhausts optimized for power.

And Lotus declared they would a have a new exhaust that would bring this into single digits.

[turbof1]

Knocking is often due to bad chamber design, not optimized fuel and too high temperature.
The last one has been discussed previously. First of all they need to go for another turbo solution. The lack of response and drivablity is a result of too long charging pipes in which can result in the problems they had in Australia when the engine was occilating at specific rpm.

Citation needed.

Plenty of street cars running rear mounted turbos with 2bar plus of boost.

Those cars do lack in throttle response and drive ability. My own car has a big turbo and gains about 300 HP in 1200 rpm, and that can be quite tricky to drive (especially in wet conditions). Although for F1 engines the most of the lag should be conquered with the MGU-H so turbo spool should not be a real issue there.

Driveability encompasses more then just the turbo. For instance the harvesting for the MGU-K causes inconistency in brake power. A well programmed brake-by-wire can remedy that, but it's difficult and complex.

Also, there might not always be enough power to optimally spool up the turbo.

[Cold Fussion]

Driveability encompasses more then just the turbo. For instance the harvesting for the MGU-K causes inconistency in brake power. A well programmed brake-by-wire can remedy that, but it's difficult and complex.

Also, there might not always be enough power to optimally spool up the turbo.

It's not clear if you're making an analogy but I doubt very much that when drivers/teams talk about drivability they're talking about braking, rather they're talking about on throttle situations. I also doubt the control system would allow for the energy store to deplete too a level where it would be unable to properly spool the turbo while under normal operating conditions. Doing so would make the car inconsistent to drive and inconsistency is slow once you introduce a driver into the system.

[turbof1]

It depends what the system calculates. You can only store 2MJ each lap on ES, with a deployment of 120kw allowed each lap. You are bound to have highs and lows. I would imagine issues are possible at the end of a lap when the 2MJ is used up. In that situation the mgu-h can only spool up the turbo by what's been harvested at the moment through the mgu-k. Coming out of a slow chicane in such a situation, when the mgu-k stopped harvesting, the turbo will not being spooled inmediately.

It's of course an if. The reality could be that the CE sacrifices power throughout the lap for smoother power delivery. But again it's not certain this delivers the optimal performance.

Given the excellent reputation of the ERS systems of Renault, I would say it's not the cause for the driveability issues. The ICE and/or the fuel is a more likely cause.

[Juzh]

Given the excellent reputation of the ERS systems of Renault

"citation needed"
On the other hand VES was losing his mind on the radio in brazil because ERS was cutting so early on the straights.

[mrluke]

The point I was trying to flag was that I am not aware of any evidence showing renaults problems are due to their charge pipes being too long.

I don't doubt they have driveability issues.

Charge pipe lengths appears to be one of those often repeated Internet myths...

[turbof1]

Given the excellent reputation of the ERS systems of Renault

"citation needed"
On the other hand VES was losing his mind on the radio in brazil because ERS was cutting so early on the straights.

I've readed it a couple of times, don't know where anymore. Of course reputations are not always true, but I haven't heard anything bad in any case from those parts.

The issue with Brazil is a combination of a high altitude and a very twisty track, meaning you'll not recuperate a lot of energy through both braking and the turbo. The long straight however will give the turbo more time to deliver energy to the mgu-h. Since energy from the mgu-h to the mgu-k (and then right on the drivetrain) is unlimited, one can benefit greatly in this area. I think this is one of Renault's strong points. Just a hunch.

[ME4ME]

https://twitter.com/tgruener/status/666280001369710592

[ripper]

That's... awkward? Or maybe the ICE needs the new turbocharger (the other 4 tokens) to work properly?

I've readed it a couple of times, don't know where anymore. Of course reputations are not always true, but I haven't heard anything bad in any case from those parts.

The issue with Brazil is a combination of a high altitude and a very twisty track, meaning you'll not recuperate a lot of energy through both braking and the turbo. The long straight however will give the turbo more time to deliver energy to the mgu-h. Since energy from the mgu-h to the mgu-k (and then right on the drivetrain) is unlimited, one can benefit greatly in this area. I think this is one of Renault's strong points. Just a hunch.

If I remember correctly it was said by an enginner (a Mercedes one?) during SPA GP weekend or directly after. In his opinion Renault's MGU-K is the most efficient and able to deploy the energy stored for more time... or something similar.

Edit:

Here it is

They say that the best part of the Renault engine ist the MGU-K. So the power from the battery lasts really long compared to competition. A Mercedes engineer told them, that after corner 16 the batteries are done in Spa and the system has to switch to MGU-H. But MGU-H usage comes at a cost. It takes away power from the combustion engine because of exhaust back pressure.

[djos]

https://twitter.com/tgruener/status/666280001369710592

Renault incompetence hitting an all new low! And some here think RedBull have been unreasonable in their strident criticism of Renault!