Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

[djos]

That's... awkward? Or maybe the ICE needs the new turbocharger (the other 4 tokens) to work properly?

I've readed it a couple of times, don't know where anymore. Of course reputations are not always true, but I haven't heard anything bad in any case from those parts.

The issue with Brazil is a combination of a high altitude and a very twisty track, meaning you'll not recuperate a lot of energy through both braking and the turbo. The long straight however will give the turbo more time to deliver energy to the mgu-h. Since energy from the mgu-h to the mgu-k (and then right on the drivetrain) is unlimited, one can benefit greatly in this area. I think this is one of Renault's strong points. Just a hunch.

If I remember correctly it was said by an enginner (a Mercedes one?) during SPA GP weekend or directly after. In his opinion Renault's MGU-K is the most efficient and able to deploy the energy stored for more time... or something similar.

Edit:

Here it is

They say that the best part of the Renault engine ist the MGU-K. So the power from the battery lasts really long compared to competition. A Mercedes engineer told them, that after corner 16 the batteries are done in Spa and the system has to switch to MGU-H. But MGU-H usage comes at a cost. It takes away power from the combustion engine because of exhaust back pressure.

If all of that is true then simply switching the ice to a "superior" version should have provided a gain, not a loss in performance even without the new turbo.

The fact they went backwards shows either Renault screwed up ... Again, or the ice mapping Renault provided was excessively conservative. Or both.

[turbof1]

If all of that is true then simply switching the ice to a "superior" version should have provided a gain, not a loss in performance even without the new turbo.

It doesn't work that way. The ICE and fuel is adapted to what regard the turbo compresses the air. You are bound to loose something in that regard.

20bhp is aprox. 0.333s a lap I presume?

[djos]

If all of that is true then simply switching the ice to a "superior" version should have provided a gain, not a loss in performance even without the new turbo.

It doesn't work that way. The ICE and fuel is adapted to what regard the turbo compresses the air. You are bound to loose something in that regard.

20bhp is aprox. 0.333s a lap I presume?

Do you really think RedBull would have agreed to run it if Renault thought it was going to be less powerful?

[Juzh]

20bhp is aprox. 0.333s a lap I presume?

Old 80bhp KERS for 6.7s was said to be around 0.3-0.4s. Interlaggos is ~50% full throttle. That's 38s (1:16 laptime) a lap. Comes out at 0.5s a lap which seems a bit excessive. I'd agree at around 0.3 mark.

[ME4ME]

I wonder how much this set-back (or should I say further screw-up) is going to effect Renault. If they put in the new turbo in Abu Dhabi, and turn everything up on the new engine, and still not be noticeably better than the old one, then they might as well pull out of F1.

Buying Lotus is only going to end up in tears if Renault can't improve their engine. It's going to be 2014 all over again for Enstone. I also do wonder how it will effect Red Bull. If the original contract is still in place, Renault is obligated to provide engines next year as well.

[PlatinumZealot]

Could have been running the engine to test the cooling on the old engine maps and fuel. If not, then they are screwed!

[ringo]

I wouldn't judge the new upgrade as yet.
Most everything in F1 is a prototype. It will need some time to be tuned to show it's potential. I think they can get more out of it than was shown in Brasil.

[djos]

I wonder how much this set-back (or should I say further screw-up) is going to effect Renault. If they put in the new turbo in Abu Dhabi, and turn everything up on the new engine, and still not be noticeably better than the old one, then they might as well pull out of F1.

Buying Lotus is only going to end up in tears if Renault can't improve their engine. It's going to be 2014 all over again for Enstone. I also do wonder how it will effect Red Bull. If the original contract is still in place, Renault is obligated to provide engines next year as well.

Indeed, I just cant imagine that RedBull would have taken the pain of a massive grid penalty for Ricciardo, (who lets face it, would not want to finish behind Kyvatt in the WDC points), If Renault had not told RBR the new ICE was going to be a worthwhile improvement over the old one ... even without the new Turbo.

[Cold Fussion]

It's of course an if. The reality could be that the CE sacrifices power throughout the lap for smoother power delivery. But again it's not certain this delivers the optimal performance.

That was the point I was making, if the throttle response suffered from massive variation (and remember the quotes from the beginning of 2014 where it was said turbo lag would be something like over a second the MGU-H boosting and less than 1 tenth with it) then it would be extremely difficult for the driver to maintain a consistent performance because he would not know ahead of time what will happen when he presses the pedal.

[FW17]

Renault's F1 managing director Cyril Abiteboul said: "What I think is fair to say is that Red Bull has found a solution. We will confirm to what extent that involves Renault, but the first thing we need to decide is our involvement in F1.

"Our involvement in F1, and an announcement on our involvement in F1, is not starting with Red Bull - because we have made it clear that we have no interest in remaining an engine supplier.

"So first, it is what do we want to do in F1? And what are the elements associated with that? What do we do with Lotus? What do we do with Red Bull/Toro Rosso?

"And also, what are affiliated parties of the Renault programme – like Total/Infiniti – doing ?


"I know there has been some speculation on that, but the triggering event is the decision of our CEO."

I think the Renault Sport engine department is under some serious review by the higher ups at Renault. The upgrade has to perform and is going to be a serious consideration before Ghosn gives a go ahead to them continuing in the sport.

I seriously wonder the shelling that Abiteboul would have received from Ghosn for the poor performance.

[ReoPTy]

what amaze me most is beileif that ICE change gets more power ! especially not feeded with bigger and more powerfull turbo and exhausts !

Red bull refused Turbo and exhausts change, couldn't adapt it !

[taperoo2k]

I wouldn't judge the new upgrade as yet.
Most everything in F1 is a prototype. It will need some time to be tuned to show it's potential. I think they can get more out of it than was shown in Brasil.

Way too early to judge Renault, these upgrades will be aimed at 2016. Renault will want to gather as much data as they can before the winter. If they don't run the new turbo at the last race, I wouldn't read too much into it. Other than Renault wanting to keep the Turbo design and data to itself.

[Phil]

https://twitter.com/tgruener/status/666280001369710592

Renault incompetence hitting an all new low! And some here think RedBull have been unreasonable in their strident criticism of Renault!

I agree with this. However, I wouldn't ignore that the nature of the these complex engines would also be very sensitive to their working environment. Could it be that in the tightly packaged RedBull the new engine runs worse than the old? I find it hard to believe that outside that environment, i.e. on a dyno, the new engine which some development went into would perform worse than the old one. Did anyone else run the new updated engine? Probably it was only Ricciardo right? Would have been good to know if those results would be consistent in a different car... With the introduction of harvesting as a factor, it's increasingly difficult to take horsepower figures at face value....

Either way, not good news. One would think that the engine that is arguably last would make the biggest progress given it has the most potential to improve... (okay, that one might go to Honda, but they're not far off probably).

[NL_Fer]

I won't be so sure, that this new ICE doesn't function without the new turbo. Remember this engine is about efficiency of the combustion, instead of pure boost pressure or rpm.

But i can imagen Renault detuning it this weekend and testing it's reliability first, before running full power in Abu Dahbi.

[djos]

I won't be so sure, that this new ICE doesn't function without the new turbo. Remember this engine is about efficiency of the combustion, instead of pure boost pressure or rpm.

But i can imagen Renault detuning it this weekend and testing it's reliability first, before running full power in Abu Dahbi.

I don't recall Mercedes spending any tokens on their turbo, they spent all theirs on the ice and still made noticeable progress.

http://formulaspy.com/features/tech-ins ... ined-18270

Frankly Renault has no excuse for not delivering more performance from the ice imo.