Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

[NL_Fer]

My though exactly. I also heard the new Turbo would be allot bigger.

Maybe, with a much bigger turbo, they can harvest more efficient. Allowing for some more running time with the wastegate opened up, during normal laps. Even a few seconds of open wastegate boost (mgu-h driving the compressor) at the start of a straight would give a substantial gain in laptime.

[djos]

Btw, it just occurred to me that Ricciardo being slower in a straight line using the new PU is even worse when you factor in the fact Kyvatt was running a PU which had already done at least 2 races Iirc.

[FoxHound]

Btw, it just occurred to me that Ricciardo being slower in a straight line using the new PU is even worse when you factor in the fact Kyvatt was running a PU which had already done at least 2 races Iirc.

When an updated engine is marginalised as to what it can do, for whatever reason, it will not perform exactly as intended.
Try putting the same air filter system of a 3.0 litre M3 engine onto the updated 3.2 litre evo model.
They share the same bore with the 3.2 getting a longer stroke.

The requirements are near identical, but when you put the 3.0 litre models airfilter system onto the 3.2 litre model, power output drops to just below that of the 3.0 litre(weather dependant).
For various reasons the part simply was not designed to be used with the updated, but basically same engine.

[djos]

Btw, it just occurred to me that Ricciardo being slower in a straight line using the new PU is even worse when you factor in the fact Kyvatt was running a PU which had already done at least 2 races Iirc.

When an updated engine is marginalised as to what it can do, for whatever reason, it will not perform exactly as intended.
Try putting the same air filter system of a 3.0 litre M3 engine onto the updated 3.2 litre evo model.
They share the same bore with the 3.2 getting a longer stroke.

The requirements are near identical, but when you put the 3.0 litre models airfilter system onto the 3.2 litre model, power output drops to just below that of the 3.0 litre(weather dependant).
For various reasons the part simply was not designed to be used with the updated, but basically same engine.

Fox you are conflating different issues mate.

Fact: RedBull expected more than they actually got from the new ICE

Renault would have likely sold RBR on the benefits of at least running the new ICE, exactly what those were we dont know but if there was no benefit to running just the ICE I doubt Renault would have given the PU to RBR to run like this.

[wuzak]

Ricciardo was 0.4km/h slower then Kyvat in the speed trap in qualifying.
Ricciardo was 1.5km/h faster then Kyvat during the race.

For reference,
Kimi was 9.7km/h slower than Vettel in qualifying.
Kimi was 15.7km/h slower during the race.

The differences in the Red Bull speeds could easily be explained by how well each exited the previous corner.

[djos]

Says it all really:

http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/3329 ... below-par/

Renault has admitted that the upgraded engine it fitted to Daniel Ricciardo's Red Bull for the Brazilian Grand Prix weekend failed to live up to its initial expectations.

"The engine ran reliably, but unfortunately it did not deliver the expected improvements in performance," said Renault Sport F1 Director of Operations Rémi Taffin.

#Renault_Fail

Personally I wish they'd get their PU up to a competitive level - I'd much rather be discussing an awesome 3 way battle between Hamilton, Vettel & Ricciardo than beating up on Renault for sucking harder than a brand new Dyson!

[gruntguru]

I won't be so sure, that this new ICE doesn't function without the new turbo. Remember this engine is about efficiency of the combustion, instead of pure boost pressure or rpm.

But i can imagen Renault detuning it this weekend and testing it's reliability first, before running full power in Abu Dahbi.

I don't recall Mercedes spending any tokens on their turbo, they spent all theirs on the ice and still made noticeable progress.

http://formulaspy.com/features/tech-ins ... ined-18270

Not surprising if, as most here assume, Mercedes got the turbo sizing correct from the start.

[djos]

Not surprising if, as most here assume, Mercedes got the turbo sizing correct from the start.

True, however Renault now admit the new ICE failed to meet their own expectations, that's pretty damming!

[Juzh]

Ricciardo was 0.4km/h slower then Kyvat in the speed trap in qualifying.
Ricciardo was 1.5km/h faster then Kyvat during the race.

For reference,
Kimi was 9.7km/h slower than Vettel in qualifying.
Kimi was 15.7km/h slower during the race.

The differences in the Red Bull speeds could easily be explained by how well each exited the previous corner.

Speed trap figures are bogus in interlaggos because the trap is positioned so far at the end of straight some cars (or all of them) are braking before they hit the timing beam. It would have you believe RB had the best top speed and all the associated nonsense (rai 15 kmh down on vettel)

Start/finish line trap which is like a 100m earlier is a much better to look for in this case as all cars are still on full throttle.
http://www.fia.com/file/36590/download?token=2Ff4h1-Q

Even then it's better to look at qualifying data because of no slipstreaming.

[toraabe]

Pure top speed is not what you are aming for, but how quick you are getting to the target top speed.

[Juzh]

And?

[ReoPTy]

Not surprising if, as most here assume, Mercedes got the turbo sizing correct from the start.

True, however Renault now admit the new ICE failed to meet their own expectations, that's pretty damming!

progres from only a ICE upgrades are tiny, could imagine he was talking the delta between dyno and ric race result , and ric legendary performances to Brazil

[djos]

Not surprising if, as most here assume, Mercedes got the turbo sizing correct from the start.

True, however Renault now admit the new ICE failed to meet their own expectations, that's pretty damming!

progres from only a ICE upgrades are tiny, could imagine he was talking the delta between dyno and ric race result , and ric legendary performances to Brazil

You can imagine all you like, Mercedes only spent 7 tokens on their ice at Monza and got a clear benefit from it.

Renault should have also been able to make a clear step forward considering the delta between the two PU's gives them a much bigger window for improvement.

The fact that Renault themselves are disappointed shows they are really struggling to understand the areas they need to improve.

I wish they would build a competitive PU simply because a 3 way fight between Mercedes, Ferrari and RedBull next year would be epic!

Right now imo RedBull would be more competitive next year with this year's Ferrari PU!

[toraabe]

I won't be so sure, that this new ICE doesn't function without the new turbo. Remember this engine is about efficiency of the combustion, instead of pure boost pressure or rpm.

But i can imagen Renault detuning it this weekend and testing it's reliability first, before running full power in Abu Dahbi.

I don't recall Mercedes spending any tokens on their turbo, they spent all theirs on the ice and still made noticeable progress.

http://formulaspy.com/features/tech-ins ... ined-18270

Not surprising if, as most here assume, Mercedes got the turbo sizing correct from the start.

After testing more than 10000 different compressor / turbine wheel combinations....

[bergie88]

I don't recall Mercedes spending any tokens on their turbo, they spent all theirs on the ice and still made noticeable progress.

http://formulaspy.com/features/tech-ins ... ined-18270

Not surprising if, as most here assume, Mercedes got the turbo sizing correct from the start.

After testing more than 10000 different compressor / turbine wheel combinations....

Most of the combinations will be tested using engine simulation software. However, to perform reliable simulations (which correlate with real tests, just like CFD and aerodynamics) correct map measurements of all the parts and very detailed models are needed.