Did Hamilton cause the Webber - Vettel crash?

[ben_watkins]

anyone got a link that FOM haven't had taken down yet?

i personally think Hamilton did nothing wrong... Webber's just gutted

[ben_watkins]

found one..

http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediaselector/chec ... =1&nbram=1

[Spencifer_Murphy]

Interesting comment by the BBC's sports correspondant right at the end there:

There'll be a lot of people thinking "This will do us nicely, we'll have the championship going down to the last race".

Which is kind of stirring things up a bit dont you think?

[freedom_honda]

well i think hamilton has nothing to do with MW and SV accident..
the SC was going a bit too slow into the corner and hamilton was just trying to avoid hitting the SC and tried to keep a distance from the SC.
Mark Webber saw it and he hit the brakes. but obviously vettel didnt.

if you ask me who to blame then i would say either the safety car or SV.
SV simply took too long to react.

[nae]

if Hamilton is at fault then so is the safety car driver!

doesn't mean he wont get punished tho

its a basic road driving skill to keep enough distance from the vehicle in front so you can stop if required. yes i know this is racing and that but still

at least vettel has the balls to accept that running into someone from behind is his own mistake regardless of what distracted him.

although i do think that a 5 car length, 10-12 meters is a bit close for the rules behind the SC in the wet

[mx_tifoso]

although i do think that a 5 car length, 10-12 meters is a bit close for the rules behind the SC in the wet

It also depends on the speed the cars are travelling at during the SC period, does anyone know the imposed speed limit when the SC is out

[nae]

as fast as he can go

[FLC]

Hamilton is not directly guilty in causing the accident, if Vettel would have kept his eyes looking straight ahead, regardless of where Hamilton was, he could have prevented it from happening.

However, if you take a look at the video here, at the bottom of the page:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/62978

and read the following sporting regulations:

40.7 Any car being driven unnecessarily slowly, erratically or which is deemed potentially dangerous to other drivers at any time whilst the safety car is deployed will be reported to the stewards. This will apply whether any such car is being driven on the track, the pit entry or the pit lane.

40.10 The safety car shall be used at least until the leader is behind it and all remaining cars are lined up behind him.
Once behind the safety car, the race leader must keep within 5 car lengths of it (except under 40.13 below) and all remaining cars must keep the formation as tight as possible.

40.13 When the clerk of the course calls in the safety car, it must extinguish its orange lights, this will be the signal to the drivers that it will be entering the pit lane at the end of that lap.
At this point the first car in line behind the safety car may dictate the pace and, if necessary, fall more than five car lengths behind it. As the safety car is approaching the pit entry the yellow flags and SC boards will be withdrawn and replaced by waved green flags with green lights at the Line. These will be displayed until the last car crosses the Line.

You can clearly see that Hamilton wasn't watching the distance specified. Blaming the SC driver is ridiculous. Exactly as Vettel had to watch a safe distance, so did Hamilton, a 5 cars length in particualr, and he failed to do so.
Not only that, but right after you can see that he was letting the SC get away from him, far more than a 5 cars length, an act which is allowed only when the orange lights are off and they are clearly not.
The fact he was so close and then so far in such proximity proves he was driving erratically.

[effuno]

The youtube video has been removed, but luckily i found a bbc video on the incident. From what I can see hamilton got side by side with the safety car before he braked hard causing webber to brake accordingly and vettel to run into the back of mark.IMO It would be bad to rip him off his points but a 10 place or more penalty wud do nicely coz he ruined races for 2 people. Irrespective of champioships and all, it was still races ruined for 2 people and that deserves punishment.

And its easy to say webber shud have kept (more)distance, but he was keeping reasonble space btw himself and hamilton. Its not as if everyone was brking at same time. Webber was reacting to hamilton braking. It surely takes time to react, however minute it mit be, and more when its raining. So does Vettel. He was reacting to webber. But everyone behind would have seen hamilton braking becoz he was into a corner that was straight(clear, shud i say?.. coz he was already traveling into a perpendicular direction to them) into their view, but not exactly for Webber and Vettel. To conclude(easy..easy.. am not one among the stewards..) : 20 places pls..!

Come on PHERNANDHO .. ur destined to win...

[Ray]

Jesus Christ. Lewis Hamilton could commit bloody murder and half of you on here wouldn't think it was a big deal. You guys know that he can do things wrong too right? Or is your affection for the kid blinding your better judgement? You guys are getting to be as bad as MS fans. (Not trying to start a fight with either fan base of course.)

You have to look at the issue without emotional feelings towards or about one driver or against another. Lewis was doing the accordion ALL race long behind the safety car. It was much more exaggerated than normal. Not to mention on a soaking wet track. Making it harder for those behind to slow down. You guys all know that if it's bad at the front, the accordion id much worse the further you go back. They want to be as close as possible to him for the restart, so he was stomping the brakes and gas to throw them off. The safety car was playing no such games either, the 'slowing down' bits you guys are talking about Lewis swerving right, what was Bernd supposed to do not brake for it? And why the hell would the safety car do that crap anyway. He's not been accused of doing that in the past that I can remember.

Lewis was clearly even with the safety car, swerved right like he did on many occasions, ans it caused an accident. It was his fault through and through. You cannot deny that his erractic actions behind the safety car all race long was against the rules, and it caused an accident. If you do, you're lying to yourself to satisfy your love for boy Hamilton.

Plus, I remember everyone cooing about Vettel doing a great job at Indy. On here and in the media. But now that he was in an accident, that might have been caused by an outside source (lewis), everyone says 'he's just a dumb rookie he'll learn.' Wait what?! I thought he was the next Schumacher? If a guy of Vettels talent said he noticed some awry, and it caused him to wreck, I believe him.

Lewis is playing his 'rookie' card beautifully. He's a wolf in sheeps clothing, a whiner like Alonso, a horrible liar, throws tantrums, drives unbelieveably well, and is really pulling the wool over everyones eyes. He's a master of deception. But you guys have got to stop foolishness like blaming the safety car for his erractic driving. You make me laugh.

[mcdenife]

From my perspective. Mark reacted to the safety car rather than to Lewis. Because Lewis suddendly came along side the SC and move to the side, mark was probably wondering where is Lewis. If I read this correctly, Lewis should keep WITHIN 5 car lengths and not ''A MAXIMUM' of 5 car lengths behhind the SC. My interpretation is that he should be no more that 5 cars away from the SC. The rules dont specify how close u can be but how far u are allowed to be. I think this mean it is left to the judgement of the following car (or driver) to ensure he does not drive into to the SC. To my mind, the same applies to the cars behind the leader. This being the case I think Vetel should have been paying close attention to what the leading guys were doing and has admitted to watching the lead guy rather than the guy directly in front of him.


Hmmmmm. think I lost myself.
Wanted: Fresh, objective pair of eyes (brain).

[Ray]

That is all very true, BUT by rapidly acclerating, swerving over to the right even with the safety car, slamming on the brakes to keep from passing said safety car, Webber now has to slam on his brakes to keep from passing Hamilton. So Lewis put EVERYONE (top tree cars anyway) in a bad spot by his stupid driving. He ran up along side the safety car, ran extremely wide, caused Webber to almost pass him, and caught Vettel off guard and surprised him. Lewis' fault. He caused it.

[mcdenife]

You have to look at the issue without emotional feelings towards or about one driver or against another. Lewis was doing the accordion ALL race long behind the safety car. It was much more exaggerated than normal. Not to mention on a soaking wet track. Making it harder for those behind to slow down. You guys all know that if it's bad at the front, the accordion id much worse the further you go back. They want to be as close as possible to him for the restart, so he was stomping the brakes and gas to throw them off. The safety car was playing no such games either, the 'slowing down' bits you guys are talking about Lewis swerving right, what was Bernd supposed to do not brake for it? And why the hell would the safety car do that crap anyway. He's not been accused of doing that in the past that I can remember.

I agree. Objectively. This was anything but a Normal race. So I ask 'what is it about this guy' you do not like? cos this is bordering on the personal. Or perhaps you know the guy personally, eh?

[Ray]

No, I don't know Lewis Hamilton personally. Don't be foolish. My main beef is that everyone is kissing this guys ass up one side and down the other. He's a god to the British press when does good, and horrible when he makes a mistake. They boohoo about him being screwed when he doesn't get things his way, then say he's world champion elect when he wins a race in which he was the only one who could see where the hell he was going. No one really spoke about Kimi driving fantastically, it was all about Hamilton.


Sure the guy is doing an absolute fantastic job, and is a rare talent. That I do not dispute or take away from him at all. BUT, he's not the angel everyone says he is. He pouts that McLaren 'like' him better, 'they' want him to win the WDC not Alonso, 'they' like him better. Please. Anyone who says he doesn't whine and say look at me!, is in denial. I hated how Schumacher stunk up the field and by most accounts could do nothing wrong in his racing behaviour. Now the same is happening with Lewis. You win a few races and get a few podiums in a car that even Ralf could probably win in and the press make him out to be a God.

Yeah, that's me in the corner yawning when the kid speaks. Put him in a Spyker and see how great he is. Even Vettel couldn't make miracles happen at STR.

This quote is what I mean about him lying to everyones face. From ITV.

"So I was making sure there was a little bit of a gap, maximising the gap that you're allowed and [using] it to my benefit.

"It was tough because Mark behind me was just too close, and all of a sudden he braked really hard and I don't know what happened – someone ran into him.

"I was constantly on the radio to my engineers to tell the Red Bull team to get Mark to make a little more of a gap because I couldn't go any faster because the pace car was in front of me.

"So I was trying to keep the distance with him and then I'd move over because I couldn't see Mark and then he'd just appear alongside me, so he kept outbraking himself.

"I felt something was going to happen, and I guess my instincts told me right."

What a bunch of lies! Webber was doing what any good race driver would, stay as close to the leader as possible for a chance to pass him. Lewis ran even with the SC then braked and Webber HAD to brake to keep from passing him and getting a penalty like Massa did. Lewis is shrewd and he pissed me off saying stuff like that like I'm not smart enough to figure it out. It's akin to MS lying bold face about Monaco.

[FLC]

People keep complaining about not being able to find the clip so I made this picture, it will also back up my earlier post:



Watch the time and Hamilton's position.
At first he is exactly about where he should be. Only a second later he is aligned with the SC, and 2-3 seconds after that he is already too far away.