Toro Rosso STR11 Ferrari Speculation Thread

[trinidefender]

I just hope that Ferrari will sent some of their engineers to keep all informations in secret. (not leaking to RedBull)

they will more than likely never see the engine internals..... engine suppliers deliver the engine to the GPs and pick them back up after the race is over... i'm willing to bet a manufacturer's engineer is there to make sure the costumer team doesnt do any funny business throughout the entire weekend.

True, Honda didn't get anything from Mclaren running Mercedes the previous year.

You guys do realise that even if ferrari left the engine with them they still wouldn't be able to see much of the internals. The engines have FIA seals on them and aren't allowed to be opened up until it is declared that the engine is destroyed. Sure they can probably borescope through the spark plugs but that the ferrari guys would never allow it,

[wuzak]

I called Renault (and Honda) dark horses considering the quality of their 2016 engines. So I didn't count them in saying seven teams will have better engines than STR.

Seven teams (Ferrari, Haas and Sauber [2016 Ferrari engine + in-season dev] as well as Mercedes, Williams, Force India and Manor [2016 Mercedes engine + in-season dev]) will have stronger engines than Toro Rosso [2015 Ferrari engine - no in-season dev].
So points will be hard to get, unless half of those teams screw up their 2016 car.
Mercedes, Ferrari, Williams and Force India (B-spec) did already have very strong cars this year, Haas is close to Ferrari and Manor has a tech deal with Williams for next season.

And again: Ferrari developing their engine for 2016 doesn't help STR as they are getting year-old (2015 spec) engines. It's basically what Manor got this year.

STR make a very good chassis.

This year it was probably only behind Mercedes and RBR and on a par with Ferrari's.

At least in the early season the 2015 PU power deficit will not be that great, and will probably be better than the Honda or Renault.

STR will comfortably beat Manor and Sauber. They should beat Haas - can't expect too much for them (I expect 8th or 9th in the WCC).

Renault will struggle next year, as the team transitions from an almost broke Lotus. STR should have them also.

The will possibly be at least on par with McLaren. Don't expect miracles with their power unit at the start of teh season.

STR will have a better all-round car than Force India, and will have a better chassis than Williams. Late season power developments may see those teams go past STR, but if they can score strongly in the first part of the season it should help them in the standings.

STR could also give Red Bull a run for their money. At the start of 2015 the STR was oft times stronger than the RBR, using the same PU. Potentially the 2015 Ferrari will remain stronger or about equivalent to the 2016 Renault. So this could give them a leg up on their sister team.

STR could be fighting for 5th in the WCC with FI.

[Blackout]

I hope STR will keep the V-shaped cooler. With the V-integrated Ferrari intercooler, that car could have some of the tiniest sidepods ever will the 2011-2012 floating sidepods be back ?

[scarbs]

Its likely that the Ferrari may move away from the centre intercooler for 016, also James Key has said in the past that the floating sidepods arent his idea of a good aero solution.

STR's biggest issue is getting the car designed and built in time for T1, with just 8 days of testing on consecutive weeks its likely they will run an interim set up and target a major update after the first few races.

[aleks_ader]

I hope STR will keep the V-shaped cooler. With the V-integrated Ferrari intercooler, that car could have some of the tiniest sidepods ever will the 2011-2012 floating sidepods be back ?

Probably not.

Presumably Ferrari Pu (2015) had slight higher CofG than Renault (also 2015 mark).
I belive that CofG is higher because of position of heavy metallic watter heat exchanger in middle of Vee of ICE versus Renault carbon fiber "only" plenum version. I don't think that Ferrari reach regulated "minimal" CoFG height with that PU arrangement. it a trade-off to save energy due low "lag" response of the engine (spooling the MGUH etc.).

Anyway the beauty of water inter-cooler is that you could relocate anything literally "in one place" of the sidepod and makes the easier CFD work for aerodynamics purposes. Less complicated opening on unusual places, less variables. And that is i believe in sport where you have very limited CFD, widtunnel hours and serious constraints in teams budget one of crucial points. Some say simple is always better...

So if they keep this years configuration of very high sitting rads in the sidepod, that could raise the overall CofG even further. So mechanical setup could collapse some work from this years very balanced chasis?

So the technical team will surely question them selves:
-how much do we learn about hight rads position from last 2 yrs (yes they experiment a lot in last yrs from doable floor sidepot etc.)? What are mechanical vs aero deficits? Is worth of sidepod shrinkage and coke bottle for extra AERO points?
-or could we make before huge regulation change complete redesign of the car in 1 year time?
-what is the path for 2017? Could we steer in one direction to make life eaier in the future?

Also big consideration points:
+they have two rookies drivers
+limited resources: staff, regulation
+very different PU from sister or "mother" team: so any potential help in that area is ruled out

Hmm. The TorroRosso is in very very difficult position how to provide ideal package and use its limited knowledge from other years in order to provide success not only for another year but years afterwards...

[aleks_ader]

Its likely that the Ferrari may move away from the centre intercooler for 016, also James Key has said in the past that the floating sidepods arent his idea of a good aero solution.

STR's biggest issue is getting the car designed and built in time for T1, with just 8 days of testing on consecutive weeks its likely they will run an interim set up and target a major update after the first few races.

My reply is in Ferrari PU thread it is more appropriate to talk about that matter there:

http://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewto ... 77#p612677

[giantfan10]

I hope STR will keep the V-shaped cooler. With the V-integrated Ferrari intercooler, that car could have some of the tiniest sidepods ever will the 2011-2012 floating sidepods be back ?

what we dont know is if the deal includes cooling solutions too....on a second topic why is it assumed that the 2015 engine will no longer be developed? i highly doubt that this will be the case...some say its the same deal as manor had... i disagree... manor got a bare bones "we feel sorry for you" deal for 2014 engines... Torro rosso can afford to pay for a competitive package from Ferrari.

[skoop]

I hope STR will keep the V-shaped cooler. With the V-integrated Ferrari intercooler, that car could have some of the tiniest sidepods ever will the 2011-2012 floating sidepods be back ?

what we dont know is if the deal includes cooling solutions too....on a second topic why is it assumed that the 2015 engine will no longer be developed? i highly doubt that this will be the case...some say its the same deal as manor had... i disagree... manor got a bare bones "we feel sorry for you" deal for 2014 engines... Torro rosso can afford to pay for a competitive package from Ferrari.

the developed 2015 engine is the 2016 engine
maybe they'll get an update when ferrari gets the second update

[giantfan10]

I hope STR will keep the V-shaped cooler. With the V-integrated Ferrari intercooler, that car could have some of the tiniest sidepods ever will the 2011-2012 floating sidepods be back ?

what we dont know is if the deal includes cooling solutions too....on a second topic why is it assumed that the 2015 engine will no longer be developed? i highly doubt that this will be the case...some say its the same deal as manor had... i disagree... manor got a bare bones "we feel sorry for you" deal for 2014 engines... Torro rosso can afford to pay for a competitive package from Ferrari.

the developed 2015 engine is the 2016 engine
maybe they'll get an update when ferrari gets the second update

The 2016 PU is supposed to have a different engine block and gearbox and the MGU moved from the back of the engine to the side which will allow Ferrari to shrink wrap the rear end.not possible with the 2015 layout

[Joseki]

They have the Austin spec for next year, it will be impossible to change it with a newer version because of the different layout the 2016 spec will have.

[denisjp]

I have the feeling STR will be more penalized more than expected by a spec 2015 PU. Just see SF15-T's rear... Ferrari couldn't make it "slim", and this didn't help the car's aerodynamics.

[Joseki]

I have the feeling STR will be more penalized more than expected by a spec 2015 PU. Just see SF15-T's rear... Ferrari couldn't make it "slim", and this didn't help the car's aerodynamics.

Depends on how good the new Renault and Honda PU will be.

[wuzak]

I think the final tokens used by Ferrari this season, but not raced, rearranged the position of the MGUK, which shoudl allow the narrower rear end.

[oetger]

Maybe we will see Scuderia Toro Rosso - Alfa Romeo ?

Rebadged Ferrari 2015 spec.

[ringo]

A nice video of the STR cars over 10 years: